[mavisky]

The issue that I have with this “new GT350” which I say in quotes is not that they cannot do it (they have every right since the trademark is theirs), it is that it hopes to build on the goodwill that the 2015-2020 Ford produced vehicle amassed in the public and media.

SAI knows that many who believe Ford and Shelby are the same will believe this is truly the next generation, when in fact it is a Mustang GT that has been hopped up. Many, and some journalists will never understand the difference, but when I drove an early Sixt Super Snake when SAI teamed up with that rental car company, the feeling was very different than my 350R. It was fast, but it was missing the aggression and the specialness that my 350R had, why is that? Because a Mustang GT was designed to be the every person’s car. It has to meet the sensibilities of the 18 year old who just got out of high school and the 80 year old who is a decade or two beyond retirement. It cannot be 100% harsh, it cannot be specialized, it cannot be niche. In contrast, products like the GT350/350R and later GT500 and GT500 CFTP (which was initially going to be called the 500R), were developed on a clean sheet of paper to be exactly that—specialized, niche, hardcore and only meeting the needs of a very particular aggressive customer base. You can feel that difference of DNA 🧬 when you drive a product that was developed for the masses versus one that was developed on a racetrack for 3 years in the 350/350R case and 5 years on track for the GT500. The Super Snake despite having the power did not have that specialness and you could feel that difference when driving. It felt tame, it’s core was the driving experience of a Mustang GT.

This new car will have the same feeling especially since the 7th gen is just a mid cycle refresh of the last car. This car, which is attempting to stand on the shoulders of the last is ultimately a mustang GT. And in my opinion, a true GT350 does not have a window sticker that says Mustang GT with a price of 40k before there is a Shelby American sticker besides it that says over $100,000 in upgrades. My 350R said it was a 350R, that means a lot in what it was. I doubt these will be acclaimed by the car media as the last one was and I doubt it will increase in value as the Ford developed car did. Many collectors will not be clamoring for this car.

100% agreed

A note on the original cars that I do think is being missed, yes the originals did use parts off the shelf but there was some sense that they developed some products on their own. Now days, everything on a SAI is a product that was developed and made by another company. If you are not in the know, then you will think that they did all of the R&D and made these parts, but if you are an enthusiast, then it is just an amalgamation of already available products with a premium for the Shelby name.

100% agreed. Their development now seems to be relegated to bodywork and no longer mechanical work.

Ultimately what I believe is the largest point and what is most significant is what this says about the future: There will be no contract between Ford and Shelby in this generation. If there was even a glimpse of a contract, the name would have been reserved. What this also says is that there will be a Shelby American produced GT500 that again will be based on a post titled vehicle like the Mustang GT. This will have an effect on vehicle values as these new cars are in name only similar to the last SAI 2011 GT350 which no one—not even Ford viewed as apart of the 350 lineage. I expect the Ford built vehicles to rise as it is clear there will not be true successor for some time.

100% agreed

 

[InPursuit]

I friggen LOVE this forum. The cordial professionalism is unmatched. Moreso, the depth of knowledge is amazing.

I learned a TON, thank you @wildcardfox for that post, it was very educational for me. Makes me realize my post a few days ago was incorrect, thanks homie!

Chris, (@AZ21GT500) I wish I was smart as you. Your intelligence combined with a great ability to eloquently write your thoughts is a talent I wish I had.

 

[Goose17]

I friggen LOVE this forum. The cordial professionalism is unmatched. Moreso, the depth of knowledge is amazing.

I learned a TON, thank you @wildcardfox for that post, it was very educational for me. Makes me realize my post a few days ago was incorrect, thanks homie!

Chris, (@AZ21GT500) I wish I was smart as you. Your intelligence combined with a great ability to eloquently write your thoughts is a talent I wish I had.

 

[2020FordRaptor]

I friggen LOVE this forum. The cordial professionalism is unmatched. Moreso, the depth of knowledge is amazing.

I learned a TON, thank you @wildcardfox for that post, it was very educational for me. Makes me realize my post a few days ago was incorrect, thanks homie!

Chris, (@AZ21GT500) I wish I was smart as you. Your intelligence combined with a great ability to eloquently write your thoughts is a talent I wish I had.

Agreed. By far my favorite forum, best ran by the moderators and members are always professionally debating others, no useless personal attacks just debate. Nice job guys!

 

[InPursuit]

 

[OscarMayer]

The boss rumors have been around for years and I hope most of the folks spreading those rumors don’t hold their breath or maybe I do 😂. It’s not even on the board at FP, can you imagine if they dropped the current 5.0 in a Boss 😂😂😂 it would be Mach 1 pandemonium all over again.

Side note.

I hadn't heard about any of this, but got curious...

Ford filed "Dark Horse Boss" for trademark (01913159) in the EU and "Boss" in the US (98963540) Jan 15 2025.

There is sizable chunk of market in between the Dark Horse and the GTD.
I have been wondering about Ford's plans to cater to it, if any.

 

[AZ21GT500]

Side note.

I hadn't heard about any of this, but got curious...

Ford filed "Dark Horse Boss" for trademark (01913159) in the EU and "Boss" in the US (98963540) Jan 15 2025.

There is sizable chunk of market in between the Dark Horse and the GTD.
I have been wondering about Ford's plans to cater to it, if any.

Very interesting twist. I had not heard about those trademarks. They must be keeping a tight lid on the project. I guess the Boss crowd will get their Bossyote after all.

Found it, looks like it includes electric power.

 

[OscarMayer]

I guess the Boss crowd will get their Bossyote after all.

😂😂😂

 

[OscarMayer]

if Ford uses...
1) Predator v1.x + DCT in the Dark Horse Boss and
2) GTD's front end
we might have something good coming our way

 

[OscarMayer]

Very interesting twist. I had not heard about those trademarks. They must be keeping a tight lid on the project.

In addition to our GT500 admin trinity El Goosetav, Don Christobal, and Supercharged Barbie girl, we have Nostradamus @wildcardfox for past and future details of life on Earth and yours truly Dr Spy Oscar for Mossad-level intelligence matters.
cough you are welcome

😂😂

 

[AZ21GT500]

if Ford uses...
1) Predator v1.x + DCT in the Dark Horse Boss and
2) GTD's front end
we might have something good coming our way

I’m not saying that won’t but remember the Predator is currently only being made for the Rapror R truck. Ford has an inventory of GT500 engines for the oops one blows up but it’s not actually in production. There’s enough difference that dropping the R Predator in a Mustang would have challenges. They would need to stockpile the necessary parts for adding sans SC in a S650. It could be done. That would effectively give SAI the Predator for the 2027 Anniversary 500 if Ford actually does it in a Boss.

Difference on the R engine, smaller pulley, crank dampener, oil filter housing and oil cooler (big change), deeper oil pan, exhaust manifolds, intake and air induction was changed. I don’t remember Brian Lizotte talking about different cams but it would make sense given the way higher torque curve.

In addition to our GT500 admin trinity El Goosetav, Don Christobal, and Supercharged Barbie girl, we have Nostradamus @wildcardfox for past and future details of life on Earth and yours truly Dr Spy Oscar for Mossad-level intelligence matters.
cough you are welcome

😂😂

It’s a full time job keeping up with actual facts. I’m going to tell my buddy in MI he missed the Boss thing 😂

 

[Shelby-5150]

So around $195k for the 350R.

 

[Kagey]

Ford Performance > Shelby American

Meaning, Ford Performance is the hero in the equation that resulted in the 2015-2020 GT350 and the 2020-2023 GT500.

I‘m told, besides the obvious name, SA provided some input into the formula that produced these cars, but these cars are what they are BECAUSE of Ford Performance.

All that being said, as you all may be aware, I am a Shelby American customer, haha. I absolutely love the people at SA that I have met, and I undoubtedly LOVE my Signature Edition car. The experience is one that I hold near and dear to my heart.

I do not hate the new GT350 & R, as a matter of fact, I kinda like them. I was just hoping that they would have created a car that was aimed at infusing some young blood into this aging customer base. I do not know what they have in the pipeline, but I think that they are missing an opportunity to produce a, gasp, more affordable option that, let’s say, an average person could “afford”.

I think the problem some people have with SA is that they forget where we are, as far as modern Mustangs. Gone are the days that an improvement to a car is simple. These cars are pretty great from the get-go. In my opinion, that’s the crux of it. What can really be done to these cars that isn’t a “bolt-on”, or a visual?

And there you have it, my 2¢

You have to post a gratuitous pic of your SE when you start doing this....

 

[2020FordRaptor]

Side note.

I hadn't heard about any of this, but got curious...

Ford filed "Dark Horse Boss" for trademark (01913159) in the EU and "Boss" in the US (98963540) Jan 15 2025.

There is sizable chunk of market in between the Dark Horse and the GTD.
I have been wondering about Ford's plans to cater to it, if any.

Please no Dark Horse Boss, make Boss its own trim level.

 

[2020FordRaptor]

Very interesting twist. I had not heard about those trademarks. They must be keeping a tight lid on the project. I guess the Boss crowd will get their Bossyote after all.

Found it, looks like it includes electric power.
View attachment 361341

Maybe they’re planning on making a Mach-E Boss? Queue the controversy.

 

[Goose17]

Please no Dark Horse Boss, make Boss its own trim level.

What about Dark Boss…?

 

[OscarMayer]

I’m not saying that won’t but remember the Predator is currently only being made for the Rapror R truck.

Video: Ford Mustang Dark Horse Boss Has A Great Ring To It

Ford has filed three trademarks, and all have the word 'Boss' in common.

carbuzz.com

 

[Traxl]

If Shelby really wanted the 5.2 over the 5.0, they may be able to work out a large order of the 5.2L Aluminator from Ford Performance. The 12:1 Compression Ratio isn't exactly boost friendly, but many people put blowers on the factory Mustang, which uses 12:1 as well.

5.2L ALUMINATOR 5.2 XS CRATE ENGINE| Part Details for M-6007-A52XS | Ford Performance Parts

 

[mavisky]

The one car that may convince me to give the 2023+ chassis a chance would be a more powerful n/a Dark Horse Boss powered by a streetable version of the 5.4 used in the IMSA GTD Pro car paired with the Tremec DCT, a sort of GTD-lite

 

[Catmonkey]

The one car that may convince me to give the 2023+ chassis a chance would be a more powerful n/a Dark Horse Boss powered by a streetable version of the 5.4 used in the IMSA GTD Pro car paired with the Tremec DCT, a sort of GTD-lite

I'd be surprised if we see a tall deck modular engine block again, and if we did, it is not likely to be the old 5.4/5.8 architecture. They could make a tall deck voodoo bore sized block. The bore diameter of the voodoo is the same as the 5.8 and the absolute max limit given the bore spacing of the modular engine.