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I don't hate them. I'd own one.
Just won't part with my Voodoo to get one!
Exactly my feelings. Ford performance hit a home run with the GT350, even more so with the improvements of the 2019 and 2020 MY's. Over the years I've driven multiple track oriented cars, both foreign and domestic, and I found my GT350 to be one of the most well balanced vehicles I've driven. All the suspension/brake parts and drive-train components compliment each other. None of them overshadow the other. That's the definition of a track oriented car.
 
Ford Performance > Shelby American

Meaning, Ford Performance is the hero in the equation that resulted in the 2015-2020 GT350 and the 2020-2023 GT500.

I‘m told, besides the obvious name, SA provided some input into the formula that produced these cars, but these cars are what they are BECAUSE of Ford Performance.

All that being said, as you all may be aware, I am a Shelby American customer, haha. I absolutely love the people at SA that I have met, and I undoubtedly LOVE my Signature Edition car. The experience is one that I hold near and dear to my heart.

I do not hate the new GT350 & R, as a matter of fact, I kinda like them. I was just hoping that they would have created a car that was aimed at infusing some young blood into this aging customer base. I do not know what they have in the pipeline, but I think that they are missing an opportunity to produce a, gasp, more affordable option that, let’s say, an average person could “afford”.

I think the problem some people have with SA is that they forget where we are, as far as modern Mustangs. Gone are the days that an improvement to a car is simple. These cars are pretty great from the get-go. In my opinion, that’s the crux of it. What can really be done to these cars that isn’t a “bolt-on”, or a visual?

And there you have it, my 2¢
 
I think the best way for SAI to stay relevant is to be on their own and building their cars. They also have several other projects including the unreleased Bronco. Unfortunately they don’t have much to choose from as far as Ford goes for V8 engines. If at some point Ford decides to drop the production Predator as an option in the Mustang then SAI will absolutely jump at the chance to use it. I’m kinda hoping that Ford adds the Hybrid V8 for 2027 so we get a look at the development SAI has been working on with that engine.

The hard part is dropping a new engine in a car that it wasn’t designed to run it. The expense alone would balloon the price.

Spot on analysis of the GTD it’s the new King car for Ford. If only they had a way to mass produce them we would definitely see more of them.
You are definitely right about the engine and innovation aspect of what you are saying. The 65 GT350 basically slapped a Holley carb on the stock engine with a few minor tweaks and ran the table against the Vett’s. They did a little more in 66 and blew the new Dodge cars doors off. Those were the days when innovation in engines was at its best. Were in different times now.

Here’s the important part about 1965 and 2025 that’s often overlooked. 1965 cars could swap out engines in a couple hours. Now it can take days to get an engine out of an S550 because of the 50 miles of wiring (not exact but you get my point) If SAI decides to pull an engine it’s a major undertaking and then the new engine has to basically hook up exactly to the existing wiring or they would spend weeks chasing codes. PBD knows this first hand. (They swapped a predator to another predator) SAI is limited to the engines Ford is willing to sell them and that’s why the new GT350 is a bolt on 5.0. It would be awesome if Ford delivered them rolling chassis and SAI had built engines ready to install. I don’t think the $ is there in sales for 500 $200,000 GT500’s. Maybe I’m wrong.

Let’s say they convinced Ford to give them the Raptor R Predator. It would need to be reworked for the S650 and retuned then installed at the factory and then were right back at Ford basically producing the car why have the added expense of shipping to NV or across town in MI for upgrades. Ford doesn’t have the interest in continuing this type of production. Let’s say SAI buys 500 Predator engines for swapping into the Next GT500. Inevitably they would need to sell off 500 new Coyotes. It’s a huge undertaking for them to sell off the base wheels coming off the SE/KR’s. I’d hate to be the internet guy’s selling 500 Coyotes 😂

These discussions prove that the folks who own these cars know they are special and actually care about the Shelby brand enough to be critical. I imagine the first time some of us see one in the wild we will be giddy with excitement. I wasn’t a fan of the S650 until we bought one for JR. it’s a damn cool car. In truth we still own the baddest ass GT500’s ever created.
Ur points are very well taken and accurate but I think where I'm struggling is the name applied to the car. Maybe the answer is just below (@mavisky) in naming it a Shelby GT or another inventive name designed to appeal to something all Shelby's own. For me anyway, this would have yielded much less criticism.
The logistics, the partnerships, the bean counting, the contracts, the willingness based on mutual benefit, etc. all would take significant time if even possible as you correctly described and provided examples supporting. I just wonder if the investigation wasn't worth it. Did SA really need to produce a 350 now to and if so why? Are sales with all the other cars they produce struggling? I can't imagine they are given the waiting list for basically every car they produce and the backlog in production overall. Could Shelby have partnered with another company to build engines for them and convince Ford to sell them cars without engines, trannys, and even wheels (example from above)? Could SA partner with Tremec for a revised DCT to work the engines produced by their other partner? Would Ford agree to sell them bodies in white and SA with even more partners or they do more in-house, and complete the car? At the end of the day, it is all just about money to all parties except for many, but not all customers. So I think it's about finding deals that help all involved do just that whether through sales percentages, marketing promotions, development opportunities, etc.
Just throwing crap against the wall here and I obviously have no clue what is feasible but the production of this car so soon after the new Super Snake kind of tells me that they didn't research much as to trying to truly make the rebirth of the 350 remarkable.

I couldn't agree more with your sentiment about the reason for these discussions and where our 500's and in my opinion the last generation 350's sit in current history anyway!
 
In the beginning

There was only Shelby Modified GT350/GT500 from production cars!

Now people turn their noses up at a the idea that they produce the very vehicles that make them a world wide company in the same way. It’s astonishing how fickle this car thing is.
Chris, please say this one more time!
 
Ford Performance > Shelby American

Meaning, Ford Performance is the hero in the equation that resulted in the 2015-2020 GT350 and the 2020-2023 GT500.

I‘m told, besides the obvious name, SA provided some input into the formula that produced these cars, but these cars are what they are BECAUSE of Ford Performance.

All that being said, as you all may be aware, I am a Shelby American customer, haha. I absolutely love the people at SA that I have met, and I undoubtedly LOVE my Signature Edition car. The experience is one that I hold near and dear to my heart.

I do not hate the new GT350 & R, as a matter of fact, I kinda like them. I was just hoping that they would have created a car that was aimed at infusing some young blood into this aging customer base. I do not know what they have in the pipeline, but I think that they are missing an opportunity to produce a, gasp, more affordable option that, let’s say, an average person could “afford”.

I think the problem some people have with SA is that they forget where we are, as far as modern Mustangs. Gone are the days that an improvement to a car is simple. These cars are pretty great from the get-go. In my opinion, that’s the crux of it. What can really be done to these cars that isn’t a “bolt-on”, or a visual?

And there you have it, my 2¢
Image
 
Ford Performance > Shelby American

Meaning, Ford Performance is the hero in the equation that resulted in the 2015-2020 GT350 and the 2020-2023 GT500.

I‘m told, besides the obvious name, SA provided some input into the formula that produced these cars, but these cars are what they are BECAUSE of Ford Performance.

All that being said, as you all may be aware, I am a Shelby American customer, haha. I absolutely love the people at SA that I have met, and I undoubtedly LOVE my Signature Edition car. The experience is one that I hold near and dear to my heart.

I do not hate the new GT350 & R, as a matter of fact, I kinda like them. I was just hoping that they would have created a car that was aimed at infusing some young blood into this aging customer base. I do not know what they have in the pipeline, but I think that they are missing an opportunity to produce a, gasp, more affordable option that, let’s say, an average person could “afford”.

I think the problem some people have with SA is that they forget where we are, as far as modern Mustangs. Gone are the days that an improvement to a car is simple. These cars are pretty great from the get-go. In my opinion, that’s the crux of it. What can really be done to these cars that isn’t a “bolt-on”, or a visual?

And there you have it, my 2¢

Totally agree. I think Ford Performance has spoiled us in the potential that the mustang has in just going above and beyond in performance with the S550s. The bar was raised to a whole other level and now SA is on the hook to raise that bar? No matter what SA does, our expectation would far exceed anything they would do make the S650 on par or higher than what FP did with the S550 GT350/500.

I think that SA should have continued their colab with FP and possibly have desinged maybe a mid-engine, all-wheel drive 800+hp beast. But then what? how high are our expectations going to get before we get a to a level of performance that continues to blow our minds? Can't keep this up forever, ya know.

Image
 
Totally agree. I think Ford Performance has spoiled us in the potential that the mustang has in just going above and beyond in performance with the S550s. The bar was raised to a whole other level and now SA is on the hook to raise that bar? No matter what SA does, our expectation would far exceed anything they would do make the S650 on par or higher than what FP did with the S550 GT350/500.

I think that SA should have continued their colab with FP and possibly have desinged maybe a mid-engine, all-wheel drive 800+hp beast. But then what? how high are our expectations going to get before we get a to a level of performance that continues to blow our minds? Can't keep this up forever, ya know.

Image
You know, I think you're right. Here's my primary issue.

Shelby was more or less non-existent until the return of the 2007 GT500. The build of the KR, 40th Anniversary, Super Snake, etc... were all great little updates to an amazing SVT product that was a significant engineering step up from the standard Mustang compared to anything SA could produce in house. This continued on through 2014 and the Shelby brand was re-invigorated for 7 years.

When the 2015 chassis dropped, including the Shelby GT350, they pivoted and began offering "Super Snakes" based around standard Mustang GT's instead. To me this instantly devalued the idea of a "Super Snake" as it wasn't based on a model wearing the snake badge in the first place. To me these should have all been Shelby GT's. SA then also wasted 5 years and completely ignored the GT350 until they offered their pathetic "Signature Edition" which was nothing more than lowering springs, wheels, and some interior "upgrades" that to me seemed more like downgrades given the car's focus. I mean really? Recovering the amazing suede Recaro's with leather is your "upgrade"? They then rolled out of a few very limited versions of the 2020-2022 GT500's afterwards, but none of them could be called Super Snakes because they'd already wasted that name on the Mustang GT horse shit they'd been peddling for over 5 year at this point.

So after burning and mis-marketing the Super Snake namesake for 9 years, they decide to now throw the GT350 name under the bus as well. Again this isn't even built upon the best car Ford has to offer. This isn't a Dark Horse handling package with the Tremec and the 500hp NA motor with some work done to it to sharpen it's blade. This is a lowly 300A based GT package with the shitty MT82 or the prone-to-overheating A10 automatic. Again this should have been the continuation of the Shelby GT from 2015, but SA is out here grabbing at straws and burning bridges since 2015 and trying to force nostalgia upon us when the car it's supposedly attached to, in both the Super Snake and GT350/GT350R cases, simply doesn't live up to those standards that have been set recently. I'm sure if they had made this announcement and offered the 480hp NA version as the GT350 but the supercharged version as the GT500 the majority of this board would be equally upset about the use of the GT500 namesake and see this for what it is. I know Shelby started out in the 60's modifying GT's, but you can't make us forget the greatness that SVT and Ford has given us since 2007 just because you want to try to make a buck.
 
You know, I think you're right. Here's my primary issue.

Shelby was more or less non-existent until the return of the 2007 GT500. The build of the KR, 40th Anniversary, Super Snake, etc... were all great little updates to an amazing SVT product that was a significant engineering step up from the standard Mustang compared to anything SA could produce in house. This continued on through 2014 and the Shelby brand was re-invigorated for 7 years.

When the 2015 chassis dropped, including the Shelby GT350, they pivoted and began offering "Super Snakes" based around standard Mustang GT's instead. To me this instantly devalued the idea of a "Super Snake" as it wasn't based on a model wearing the snake badge in the first place. To me these should have all been Shelby GT's. SA then also wasted 5 years and completely ignored the GT350 until they offered their pathetic "Signature Edition" which was nothing more than lowering springs, wheels, and some interior "upgrades" that to me seemed more like downgrades given the car's focus. I mean really? Recovering the amazing suede Recaro's with leather is your "upgrade"? They then rolled out of a few very limited versions of the 2020-2022 GT500's afterwards, but none of them could be called Super Snakes because they'd already wasted that name on the Mustang GT horse shit they'd been peddling for over 5 year at this point.

So after burning and mis-marketing the Super Snake namesake for 9 years, they decide to now throw the GT350 name under the bus as well. Again this isn't even built upon the best car Ford has to offer. This isn't a Dark Horse handling package with the Tremec and the 500hp NA motor with some work done to it to sharpen it's blade. This is a lowly 300A based GT package with the shitty MT82 or the prone-to-overheating A10 automatic. Again this should have been the continuation of the Shelby GT from 2015, but SA is out here grabbing at straws and burning bridges since 2015 and trying to force nostalgia upon us when the car it's supposedly attached to, in both the Super Snake and GT350/GT350R cases, simply doesn't live up to those standards that have been set recently. I'm sure if they had made this announcement and offered the 480hp NA version as the GT350 but the supercharged version as the GT500 the majority of this board would be equally upset about the use of the GT500 namesake and see this for what it is. I know Shelby started out in the 60's modifying GT's, but you can't make us forget the greatness that SVT and Ford has given us since 2007 just because you want to try to make a buck.
My thoughts exactly. Only thing SA has done that I absolutely love recently, is the Code Red, even then that’s still Fathouse Performance. At least that’s how I think performance should look like at SA, I know they don’t have the resources to go more bespoke, but at least they should be different.
 
You know, I think you're right. Here's my primary issue.

Shelby was more or less non-existent until the return of the 2007 GT500. The build of the KR, 40th Anniversary, Super Snake, etc... were all great little updates to an amazing SVT product that was a significant engineering step up from the standard Mustang compared to anything SA could produce in house. This continued on through 2014 and the Shelby brand was re-invigorated for 7 years.

When the 2015 chassis dropped, including the Shelby GT350, they pivoted and began offering "Super Snakes" based around standard Mustang GT's instead. To me this instantly devalued the idea of a "Super Snake" as it wasn't based on a model wearing the snake badge in the first place. To me these should have all been Shelby GT's. SA then also wasted 5 years and completely ignored the GT350 until they offered their pathetic "Signature Edition" which was nothing more than lowering springs, wheels, and some interior "upgrades" that to me seemed more like downgrades given the car's focus. I mean really? Recovering the amazing suede Recaro's with leather is your "upgrade"? They then rolled out of a few very limited versions of the 2020-2022 GT500's afterwards, but none of them could be called Super Snakes because they'd already wasted that name on the Mustang GT horse shit they'd been peddling for over 5 year at this point.

So after burning and mis-marketing the Super Snake namesake for 9 years, they decide to now throw the GT350 name under the bus as well. Again this isn't even built upon the best car Ford has to offer. This isn't a Dark Horse handling package with the Tremec and the 500hp NA motor with some work done to it to sharpen it's blade. This is a lowly 300A based GT package with the shitty MT82 or the prone-to-overheating A10 automatic. Again this should have been the continuation of the Shelby GT from 2015, but SA is out here grabbing at straws and burning bridges since 2015 and trying to force nostalgia upon us when the car it's supposedly attached to, in both the Super Snake and GT350/GT350R cases, simply doesn't live up to those standards that have been set recently. I'm sure if they had made this announcement and offered the 480hp NA version as the GT350 but the supercharged version as the GT500 the majority of this board would be equally upset about the use of the GT500 namesake and see this for what it is. I know Shelby started out in the 60's modifying GT's, but you can't make us forget the greatness that SVT and Ford has given us since 2007 just because you want to try to make a buck.
It’s obvious you are’t going to be buying one anytime soon. Got it, it’s a frequent anti SAI thing on the regular.

Ford actually brought Shelby back in to the fold in 2005 and I don’t think anyone thought that partnership was going to span the next 20 years. SAI needs to get back to what they were doing in the 60’s. The hard part I guess that’s beyond understanding is the modern 5.0 engine being part of the ongoing development. It’s the only engine Ford has in the Mustang. Therefore it’s the only option Shelby has for building the next few years of their company keeping the dream alive and employees employed.

Ford has decided to take a path and go forward with the Dark Horse and GTD. It’s business and SAI has chosen a path of survival. They will sell every one of them.
 
You know, I think you're right. Here's my primary issue.

Shelby was more or less non-existent until the return of the 2007 GT500. The build of the KR, 40th Anniversary, Super Snake, etc... were all great little updates to an amazing SVT product that was a significant engineering step up from the standard Mustang compared to anything SA could produce in house. This continued on through 2014 and the Shelby brand was re-invigorated for 7 years.

When the 2015 chassis dropped, including the Shelby GT350, they pivoted and began offering "Super Snakes" based around standard Mustang GT's instead. To me this instantly devalued the idea of a "Super Snake" as it wasn't based on a model wearing the snake badge in the first place. To me these should have all been Shelby GT's. SA then also wasted 5 years and completely ignored the GT350 until they offered their pathetic "Signature Edition" which was nothing more than lowering springs, wheels, and some interior "upgrades" that to me seemed more like downgrades given the car's focus. I mean really? Recovering the amazing suede Recaro's with leather is your "upgrade"? They then rolled out of a few very limited versions of the 2020-2022 GT500's afterwards, but none of them could be called Super Snakes because they'd already wasted that name on the Mustang GT horse shit they'd been peddling for over 5 year at this point.

So after burning and mis-marketing the Super Snake namesake for 9 years, they decide to now throw the GT350 name under the bus as well. Again this isn't even built upon the best car Ford has to offer. This isn't a Dark Horse handling package with the Tremec and the 500hp NA motor with some work done to it to sharpen it's blade. This is a lowly 300A based GT package with the shitty MT82 or the prone-to-overheating A10 automatic. Again this should have been the continuation of the Shelby GT from 2015, but SA is out here grabbing at straws and burning bridges since 2015 and trying to force nostalgia upon us when the car it's supposedly attached to, in both the Super Snake and GT350/GT350R cases, simply doesn't live up to those standards that have been set recently. I'm sure if they had made this announcement and offered the 480hp NA version as the GT350 but the supercharged version as the GT500 the majority of this board would be equally upset about the use of the GT500 namesake and see this for what it is. I know Shelby started out in the 60's modifying GT's, but you can't make us forget the greatness that SVT and Ford has given us since 2007 just because you want to try to make a buck.
It’s obvious you are’t going to be buying one anytime soon. Got it, it’s a frequent anti SAI thing on the re

Ford actually brought Shelby back in to the fold in 2005 and I don’t think anyone thought that partnership was going to span the next 20 years. SAI needs to get back to what they were doing in the 60’s. The hard part I guess that’s beyond understanding is the modern 5.0 engine being part of the ongoing development. It’s the only engine Ford has in the Mustang. Therefore it’s the only option Shelby has for building the next few years of their company keeping the dream alive and employees employed.

Ford has decided to take a path and go forward with the Dark Horse and GTD. It’s business and SAI has chosen a path of survival. They will sell every one of them.
Hey Chris,
Your point regarding survival and it being business makes me wonder, what did Shelby American do to keep the lights on, employees paid, and remain profitable prior to partnering once again with Ford in 2005? Carroll himself, sold chili in the 70’s, worked with Chrysler/Dodge in the 80’s and 90’s but what kept the company alive? Was it sales of their historic heritage cars only?
Wondered if you or anyone knows because obviously the majority of the portfolio currently are all different versions of Fords. Wonder what they would have done if Ford followed suit and dropped the V8 performance in favor of electric or like Dodge or dropped the Mustang all together like Chevy with the Camaro. If Lightning sales went the other way, the F150 may not have been an option either. This all means nothing of course because IF doesn’t count for anything but it seems that they are pretty dependent on the relationship with Ford in order to survive. That in itself may be a strong motivator to forge alternate partnerships.
As far as Ford Performance being greater than Shelby American, I think the comparison is kind of silly. Ford is 1000X the size, operating budget and capital, employees, etc. Ford Performance is one piece of the the corporate behemoth. It is clear that Ford believes cars like the Dark Horse and GTD are their performance future but with the rumors of them bringing back historic names like Boss, I’m also surprised they didn’t want to do something with Shelby and a GTD base for the GT350. I understand who owns the name but many many people don’t know that and Ford would make money there too. Most people here, including me have no exact knowledge of where Ford ends and Shelby begins when it came to our cars and I imagine the same would be true if they went that route. Both Ford and Shelby profited from 2016-2020 GT350 and the 2020-2022 GT500 and with Ford focusing on other cars, I would think it could’ve been a chance to supply the foundation and let SA do the heavy lifting while they collect profits.
 
Hey Chris,
Your point regarding survival and it being business makes me wonder, what did Shelby American do to keep the lights on, employees paid, and remain profitable prior to partnering once again with Ford in 2005? Carroll himself, sold chili in the 70’s, worked with Chrysler/Dodge in the 80’s and 90’s but what kept the company alive? Was it sales of their historic heritage cars only?
Wondered if you or anyone knows because obviously the majority of the portfolio currently are all different versions of Fords. Wonder what they would have done if Ford followed suit and dropped the V8 performance in favor of electric or like Dodge or dropped the Mustang all together like Chevy with the Camaro. If Lightning sales went the other way, the F150 may not have been an option either. This all means nothing of course because IF doesn’t count for anything but it seems that they are pretty dependent on the relationship with Ford in order to survive. That in itself may be a strong motivator to forge alternate partnerships.
As far as Ford Performance being greater than Shelby American, I think the comparison is kind of silly. Ford is 1000X the size, operating budget and capital, employees, etc. Ford Performance is one piece of the the corporate behemoth. It is clear that Ford believes cars like the Dark Horse and GTD are their performance future but with the rumors of them bringing back historic names like Boss, I’m also surprised they didn’t want to do something with Shelby and a GTD base for the GT350. I understand who owns the name but many many people don’t know that and Ford would make money there too. Most people here, including me have no exact knowledge of where Ford ends and Shelby begins when it came to our cars and I imagine the same would be true if they went that route. Both Ford and Shelby profited from 2016-2020 GT350 and the 2020-2022 GT500 and with Ford focusing on other cars, I would think it could’ve been a chance to supply the foundation and let SA do the heavy lifting while they collect profits.
Also does anyone know if Shelby gets a piece of the Revology build cars? They’re listed in the vehicles section of the SA website so I assume they do.
 
Hey Chris,
Your point regarding survival and it being business makes me wonder, what did Shelby American do to keep the lights on, employees paid, and remain profitable prior to partnering once again with Ford in 2005? Carroll himself, sold chili in the 70’s, worked with Chrysler/Dodge in the 80’s and 90’s but what kept the company alive? Was it sales of their historic heritage cars only?
Wondered if you or anyone knows because obviously the majority of the portfolio currently are all different versions of Fords. Wonder what they would have done if Ford followed suit and dropped the V8 performance in favor of electric or like Dodge or dropped the Mustang all together like Chevy with the Camaro. If Lightning sales went the other way, the F150 may not have been an option either. This all means nothing of course because IF doesn’t count for anything but it seems that they are pretty dependent on the relationship with Ford in order to survive. That in itself may be a strong motivator to forge alternate partnerships.
As far as Ford Performance being greater than Shelby American, I think the comparison is kind of silly. Ford is 1000X the size, operating budget and capital, employees, etc. Ford Performance is one piece of the the corporate behemoth. It is clear that Ford believes cars like the Dark Horse and GTD are their performance future but with the rumors of them bringing back historic names like Boss, I’m also surprised they didn’t want to do something with Shelby and a GTD base for the GT350. I understand who owns the name but many many people don’t know that and Ford would make money there too. Most people here, including me have no exact knowledge of where Ford ends and Shelby begins when it came to our cars and I imagine the same would be true if they went that route. Both Ford and Shelby profited from 2016-2020 GT350 and the 2020-2022 GT500 and with Ford focusing on other cars, I would think it could’ve been a chance to supply the foundation and let SA do the heavy lifting while they collect profits.
After Ford in 1970 SAI basically went out of business. Carroll was in Africa doing humanitarian work. He came back in the 80’s to work with Lee at Chrysler. That ended in 89 and he went back to being a farmer. During the 90’s he was working with Don Landy on the Series 1 to try rebuilding his company for the second time. He was surviving on the Cobra continuation (kits) cars being built under license during that time around the world. In 1995 Shelby American was founded again basically as a new company eventually being bought out by Venture Holdings who completely botched and destroyed the Series 1 launch. Most customers waited 4 years to get cars. Venture Holdings bankrupted their company after the larger subsidiary forced them to close. They were hemorrhaging money on trying to keep the Series 1 operational. Shelby only retained the 1960’s properties Cobra and GT350/500 Super Snake trademarks from that sale. In 2003 he started a new company Carroll Shelby International and bought back what was left of SA and renamed the company SAI in 2009. They have been officially working with Ford since 2005 on various projects. It’s true that the two go hand in hand. SAI survives off of Ford. Hence the reason they are limited on engines. Ford vehicles are used extensively by SAI giving both a higher value.

On the “electric” question… SAI has already worked on the Mach E and Lightning, they were also instrumental in helping develop the 2019 AWD All Electric Mustang Prototype that died on the vine. Yes FP is awesome and there’s much more integration between FP and SAI than anyone knows. Gary’s office is at Ford HQ down the hall from Farley. Vince is regularly in working meetings with FP on performance improvements and how SAI can expand on what FP is doing. It’s truly an integration rather than just buying cars and popping on some parts before selling them with stickers like other companies are known to do. The companies history is intertwined and the survival of SAI is dependent on Ford.

Most “hater’s” of the Mach E don’t realize that Ford made that decision to save the Mustang brand and keep a V8 powered Gas car in their stable. If they hadn’t we might have seen the last of the ICE mustangs in 2022.

Ford has developed a Hybrid V8 that’s capable of some crazy power NA. It’s just not the right time to release it.

The boss rumors have been around for years and I hope most of the folks spreading those rumors don’t hold their breath or maybe I do 😂. It’s not even on the board at FP, can you imagine if they dropped the current 5.0 in a Boss 😂😂😂 it would be Mach 1 pandemonium all over again. I can hear it now day 1 it’s only a trim package with stickers and wheels blah blah then 6 months later they are paying a 30k ADM for their 5.0 Boss 😂 same shit happened with the Mach 1.

I hope SAI goes on building cool shit for the rest of my lifetime because they have been such a huge part of my life from childhood till now passing the torch to my son like my dad did for me. I don’t hold them as a god but I also know that it’s not my place to criticize them for trying to keep hundreds of employees employed and tens of thousands of their customers excited and engaged. Those folks have immense pride in keeping his dream alive. Someone made a comment recently about the next generation. I watched dads walk in the booth today with stars in their eyes at the vehicles they were dreaming to own. I also watched the joy on those kid’s faces as they watched their dads become kids again. It’s truly inspiring.
Also does anyone know if Shelby gets a piece of the Revology build cars? They’re listed in the vehicles section of the SA website so I assume they do.
Yes through a licensing agreement but I believe most of the money goes to the Foundation. Anything produced at SAI Vegas, Michigan and Indiana keeps the lights on. Licensing keeps the Children’s Heart Foundation going and saving lives.
 
After Ford in 1970 SAI basically went out of business. Carroll was in Africa doing humanitarian work. He came back in the 80’s to work with Lee at Chrysler. That ended in 89 and he went back to being a farmer. During the 90’s he was working with Don Landy on the Series 1 to try rebuilding his company for the second time. He was surviving on the Cobra continuation (kits) cars being built under license during that time around the world. In 1995 Shelby American was founded again basically as a new company eventually being bought out by Venture Holdings who completely botched and destroyed the Series 1 launch. Most customers waited 4 years to get cars. Venture Holdings bankrupted their company after the larger subsidiary forced them to close. They were hemorrhaging money on trying to keep the Series 1 operational. Shelby only retained the 1960’s properties Cobra and GT350/500 Super Snake trademarks from that sale. In 2003 he started a new company Carroll Shelby International and bought back what was left of SA and renamed the company SAI in 2009. They have been officially working with Ford since 2005 on various projects. It’s true that the two go hand in hand. SAI survives off of Ford. Hence the reason they are limited on engines. Ford vehicles are used extensively by SAI giving both a higher value.

On the “electric” question… SAI has already worked on the Mach E and Lightning, they were also instrumental in helping develop the 2019 AWD All Electric Mustang Prototype that died on the vine. Yes FP is awesome and there’s much more integration between FP and SAI than anyone knows. Gary’s office is at Ford HQ down the hall from Farley. Vince is regularly in working meetings with FP on performance improvements and how SAI can expand on what FP is doing. It’s truly an integration rather than just buying cars and popping on some parts before selling them with stickers like other companies are known to do. The companies history is intertwined and the survival of SAI is dependent on Ford.

Most “hater’s” of the Mach E don’t realize that Ford made that decision to save the Mustang brand and keep a V8 powered Gas car in their stable. If they hadn’t we might have seen the last of the ICE mustangs in 2022.

Ford has developed a Hybrid V8 that’s capable of some crazy power NA. It’s just not the right time to release it.

The boss rumors have been around for years and I hope most of the folks spreading those rumors don’t hold their breath or maybe I do 😂. It’s not even on the board at FP, can you imagine if they dropped the current 5.0 in a Boss 😂😂😂 it would be Mach 1 pandemonium all over again. I can hear it now day 1 it’s only a trim package with stickers and wheels blah blah then 6 months later they are paying a 30k ADM for their 5.0 Boss 😂 same shit happened with the Mach 1.

I hope SAI goes on building cool shit for the rest of my lifetime because they have been such a huge part of my life from childhood till now passing the torch to my son like my dad did for me. I don’t hold them as a god but I also know that it’s not my place to criticize them for trying to keep hundreds of employees employed and tens of thousands of their customers excited and engaged. Those folks have immense pride in keeping his dream alive. Someone made a comment recently about the next generation. I watched dads walk in the booth today with stars in their eyes at the vehicles they were dreaming to own. I also watched the joy on those kid’s faces as they watched their dads become kids again. It’s truly inspiring.

Yes through a licensing agreement but I believe most of the money goes to the Foundation. Anything produced at SAI Vegas, Michigan and Indiana keeps the lights on. Licensing keeps the Children’s Heart Foundation going and saving lives.
Thank you. Somehow I knew you would have the answers. LOL. I wish I could afford one of those Revology cars. Would be cool to drive around in the classic but with all the modern creature comforts. I used to love driving around in my friends fathers 66 but hot in the summer and we always smelled like exhaust and gas. Power steering and radio that actually got a station would’ve been too. LOL 😆
 
Thank you. Somehow I knew you would have the answers. LOL. I wish I could afford one of those Revology cars. Would be cool to drive around in the classic but with all the modern creature comforts. I used to love driving around in my friends fathers 66 but hot in the summer and we always smelled like exhaust and gas. Power steering and radio that actually got a station would’ve been too. LOL 😆
No problem at all. I was around those guys quite a lot during the Chrysler years. Lee and Carroll were always very cool to me especially when I was a goofy kid, Carroll told me jokes I often repeated at school earning detention. One of these days I’ll dig my GT350 car he gave me out of my boxes and post some pictures. I can’t remember if it was Hotwheels or Matchbox.
 
It’s obvious you are’t going to be buying one anytime soon. Got it, it’s a frequent anti SAI thing on the regular.

Ford actually brought Shelby back in to the fold in 2005 and I don’t think anyone thought that partnership was going to span the next 20 years. SAI needs to get back to what they were doing in the 60’s. The hard part I guess that’s beyond understanding is the modern 5.0 engine being part of the ongoing development. It’s the only engine Ford has in the Mustang. Therefore it’s the only option Shelby has for building the next few years of their company keeping the dream alive and employees employed.

Ford has decided to take a path and go forward with the Dark Horse and GTD. It’s business and SAI has chosen a path of survival. They will sell every one of them.
I'm not Anti-SAI. I'm anti-SAI-post-2015 because as a consumer I no longer have any interest in consuming what they're producing. I was very interested previously, but didn't have the financial means to do so.

Again, before you dismiss me entire post just because it didn't sing their praises, I really wouldn't have an issue with this new car at all if it was launched as the Shelby GT. The Shelby GT was a mildly worked over Mustang GT that was available either NA or with an optional supercharger. It had some revised suspension and bodywork, came with a CS number, and sold relatively well. That's precisely what this car is, but it feels like they tried to ride the name of the GT350 which may have worked pre-2015, but after the GT350 that Ford built directly, just feels like a half hearted attempt in response and that's been the cause for the negative feedback that I'm seeing on every social media site including this one.

Names matter and, even with your rosy remembrance of the people involved in this company, I don't think you could look at me with a straight face and say that if they launched this as the GT500 and the GT500 Carbon Fiber Track Edition instead of the GT350 and GT350R, that you wouldn't also feel a bit disappointed in the naming scheme of the launch. You talk about how Venture Holdings botched the launch of one my my favorite cars from Shelby, the Series 1, but in my opinion SAI themselves have botched the launch of this new release all on their own.
 
I'm not Anti-SAI. I'm anti-SAI-post-2015 because as a consumer I no longer have any interest in consuming what they're producing. I was very interested previously, but didn't have the financial means to do so.

Again, before you dismiss me entire post just because it didn't sing their praises, I really wouldn't have an issue with this new car at all if it was launched as the Shelby GT. The Shelby GT was a mildly worked over Mustang GT that was available either NA or with an optional supercharger. It had some revised suspension and bodywork, came with a CS number, and sold relatively well. That's precisely what this car is, but it feels like they tried to ride the name of the GT350 which may have worked pre-2015, but after the GT350 that Ford built directly, just feels like a half hearted attempt in response and that's been the cause for the negative feedback that I'm seeing on every social media site including this one.

Names matter and, even with your rosy remembrance of the people involved in this company, I don't think you could look at me with a straight face and say that if they launched this as the GT500 and the GT500 Carbon Fiber Track Edition instead of the GT350 and GT350R, that you wouldn't also feel a bit disappointed in the naming scheme of the launch. You talk about how Venture Holdings botched the launch of one my my favorite cars from Shelby, the Series 1, but in my opinion SAI themselves have botched the launch of this new release all on their own.
I mean Shelby actually did this in 2023 and then killed the naming scheme and replaced it with GT350 for this new launch.

 
The problem with the relationship for Ford is that many in the public associate Ford with Shelby and Shelby with Ford. Meaning that they think Shelby is just an extension of Ford like AMG is for Mercedes or SRT for Dodge. This has caused major issues and tumult within Ford for some as Shelby needs Ford but Ford does not need Shelby. The GTD does not have Shelby association because it would further continue this confusion. With Ford taking the Mustang racing around the world they want people to be saying “Ford won, and not Shelby won” which is 100% fair because it is Ford money, engineering, personnel, etc.. along with Multimatic that did it—Shelby would’ve just been a name. The GTD and Dark Horse are Ford going back to making their own top level cars, and that has been the plan since 2022 when it was clear that Ford was not interested in signing a new contract with Shelby. It was Ford who wanted to go their own way, not Shelby.

As a journalist, I am privy to insights behind the scenes. The relationship ending has not been a good one with Ford’s marketing arm clearly viewing Shelby demographics as older than the desired 18-30 crowd. Products have been canceled and Shelby has not been invited to events.

Who has had the hot hand in that crowd for Mustang products? RTR. That is why Ford worked with them in the development of a drift brake for the 7th gen, and now developed a hot version of the Ecoboost. However, don’t think that RTR’s ambitions are done, if that car sells they will be pushing for a V8 pre-title version, as RTR wants to be the new Shelby within Ford.

That term pre-title and post-title need to be explained. Pre-title is a car that is made under license to use the name and trademarks of a third party company like Shelby or RTR, but it is designed and built by Ford. They have some input in it of course, but it is a Ford engineered and manufactured product. Post-title are cars that are fully completed cars that are then purchased and turned into a third party vehicle like Shelby, Saleen, et al.

Without a contract with Ford, Shelby American Inc. (SAI), a subsidiary of the Carroll Shelby Trust which owns the trademarks for GT350 and GT500, are on their own. They cannot design, build, and test anything on their own, in fact other than body modifications all of their products are manufactured and made by other companies and Shelby just licenses them.

I’ve heard many asking for a different engine choice, that was never in the cards because without Ford, Shelby can only make a post-title vehicles and EPA testing, government regulations cannot be circumvented if they want to make a road legal car. Thus, they cannot buy a GT and then say, “let’s drop in a different engine or transmission.” They also cannot so easily, without working with Ford acquire the Dark Horse. Ford would have to say “we will make 100 Dark Horses available to SAI, but then that would (1) blow up the number produced of that car, (2) take away from cars already allocated to dealerships, (3) require a contract for those cars that would also to favor Shelby over their competitors at Roush, RTR, etc… they could not do that. The only way to acquire cars is to buy a vehicle that is plentiful, the Mustang GT.

Some have mentioned that the snake 🐍 logo is different on the new car, that is because the snake on our cars is called the “Tiffany Snake 🐍”. It was developed with Shelby and Ford and can only be used if both companies are on a product together. Look at SAI’s merchandise. It does not have the Tiffany snake.

The issue that I have with this “new GT350” which I say in quotes is not that they cannot do it (they have every right since the trademark is theirs), it is that it hopes to build on the goodwill that the 2015-2020 Ford produced vehicle amassed in the public and media.

SAI knows that many who believe Ford and Shelby are the same will believe this is truly the next generation, when in fact it is a Mustang GT that has been hopped up. Many, and some journalists will never understand the difference, but when I drove an early Sixt Super Snake when SAI teamed up with that rental car company, the feeling was very different than my 350R. It was fast, but it was missing the aggression and the specialness that my 350R had, why is that? Because a Mustang GT was designed to be the every person’s car. It has to meet the sensibilities of the 18 year old who just got out of high school and the 80 year old who is a decade or two beyond retirement. It cannot be 100% harsh, it cannot be specialized, it cannot be niche. In contrast, products like the GT350/350R and later GT500 and GT500 CFTP (which was initially going to be called the 500R), were developed on a clean sheet of paper to be exactly that—specialized, niche, hardcore and only meeting the needs of a very particular aggressive customer base. You can feel that difference of DNA 🧬 when you drive a product that was developed for the masses versus one that was developed on a racetrack for 3 years in the 350/350R case and 5 years on track for the GT500. The Super Snake despite having the power did not have that specialness and you could feel that difference when driving. It felt tame, it’s core was the driving experience of a Mustang GT.

This new car will have the same feeling especially since the 7th gen is just a mid cycle refresh of the last car. This car, which is attempting to stand on the shoulders of the last is ultimately a mustang GT. And in my opinion, a true GT350 does not have a window sticker that says Mustang GT with a price of 40k before there is a Shelby American sticker besides it that says over $100,000 in upgrades. My 350R said it was a 350R, that means a lot in what it was. I doubt these will be acclaimed by the car media as the last one was and I doubt it will increase in value as the Ford developed car did. Many collectors will not be clamoring for this car.

A note on the original cars that I do think is being missed, yes the originals did use parts off the shelf but there was some sense that they developed some products on their own. Now days, everything on a SAI is a product that was developed and made by another company. If you are not in the know, then you will think that they did all of the R&D and made these parts, but if you are an enthusiast, then it is just an amalgamation of already available products with a premium for the Shelby name.

Why 100 cars? Yes history, but also Shelby American has a dedicated buyers group who will purchase almost anything that they make. They will already have many slots already filled—they are very good at selling cars. These are not people who owned the 2015-2020 Ford built cars, these are whales who just love and buy everything that they make from the Centennial car to the KR, etc.. I think however, that after those 100 or 136 (including the R), it might start becoming harder to sell as that well will start to run dry.

Also for the TransAm series do not expect Shelby American to be running that in house. They will team with an existing racer or team who will fit a majority of the bill just like their Pikes Peak and lesser known drift team effort. It will be a customer run program for the most part.

SAI is not under any threat of closing, they have a very loyal customer base. But this is them responding to the end of the contract and going fully their own way.

Ultimately what I believe is the largest point and what is most significant is what this says about the future: There will be no contract between Ford and Shelby in this generation. If there was even a glimpse of a contract, the name would have been reserved. What this also says is that there will be a Shelby American produced GT500 that again will be based on a post titled vehicle like the Mustang GT. This will have an effect on vehicle values as these new cars are in name only similar to the last SAI 2011 GT350 which no one—not even Ford viewed as apart of the 350 lineage. I expect the Ford built vehicles to rise as it is clear there will not be true successor for some time.
 
I'm not Anti-SAI. I'm anti-SAI-post-2015 because as a consumer I no longer have any interest in consuming what they're producing. I was very interested previously, but didn't have the financial means to do so.

Again, before you dismiss me entire post just because it didn't sing their praises, I really wouldn't have an issue with this new car at all if it was launched as the Shelby GT. The Shelby GT was a mildly worked over Mustang GT that was available either NA or with an optional supercharger. It had some revised suspension and bodywork, came with a CS number, and sold relatively well. That's precisely what this car is, but it feels like they tried to ride the name of the GT350 which may have worked pre-2015, but after the GT350 that Ford built directly, just feels like a half hearted attempt in response and that's been the cause for the negative feedback that I'm seeing on every social media site including this one.

Names matter and, even with your rosy remembrance of the people involved in this company, I don't think you could look at me with a straight face and say that if they launched this as the GT500 and the GT500 Carbon Fiber Track Edition instead of the GT350 and GT350R, that you wouldn't also feel a bit disappointed in the naming scheme of the launch. You talk about how Venture Holdings botched the launch of one my my favorite cars from Shelby, the Series 1, but in my opinion SAI themselves have botched the launch of this new release all on their own.
It’s a good thing they don’t need to worry about you keeping them afloat. It’s not my company and not my choice to decide how they use their intellectual property. If they decide to bolt a Whipple on a 5.0 in 2027 and call it a GT500 more power to them. I guarantee they would sell out despite the fact that I probably won’t be in the market buying. I would not at all be disappointed with them launching a 2027 GT500. Who knows maybe Ford wakes up and decides to pop some 5.2’s into 500 Mustang’s for the 60th anniversary of the GT500. 🤷🏽‍♂️ either way it won’t matter to me.

As it relates to Venture Holdings they were in control of SAI respectively and destroyed the entire company by how they managed the S1 car. It had nothing to do with Carroll or the company surviving he had been pushed out.

I don’t see any botched release but hey we’re both entitled to our opinions. They built a bad ass car and as of yesterday had sold more than 1/2 of the 500 planned this year. Guess some other folks thought it was cool enough to drop 160k on it. Unlike the 60’s these aren’t all cookie cutter cars, you pick which GT to build the car on making each one unique.

The block you are stumbling on is the pride you have in your GT350 and all its awesomeness. Things change and SAI has pivoted to making them another way. It’s their car and they get to choose how it’s made. Socialist media is a bunch of people bitching about something they would never buy. If you drop the money and are disappointed I would be the first in line to seek a resolution for you.

I’ll make another point about the Super Snake you mentioned before. Since Ford was producing the S550 GT350/500’s and the only money to be made from that agreement was for the CHS foundation SAI needed to survive. Enter the SS built on a GT platform and the SGT, GTE (ecoboost), SF150, SRaptor etc. they had to toss a lot of stuff out to stay alive. I don’t fault them for that one bit.
 
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