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....... something to do with the stupidity level ........
Your not saying people who do their cars like that are stupid, are you? Or 80 million plus people?
The younger crowd likes different cars and different setups. At least they like cars, but not the ones we have or like. The younger people are into cars they have had or have. Just like us!
 

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What makes me really laugh about these "stance" cars is that they are using the camber to lower their car, but thats not even what it's for. Drift cars will use a 10° negative camber on the front tires to help with the drift.
The camber isn't used to lower the car, it's used to help fit massively wide wheels under their fenders. WIth 0 camber the wheels would poke multiple inches outside of the bodywork.

For instance there's normally no way you'd ever fit a 5.5" lip on the front wheels on an Acura Integra like this without extreme camber.

2021-10-13_09-39-23 by Kyle Mavis, on Flickr
 

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Your not saying people who do their cars like that are stupid, are you? Or 80 million plus people?
The younger crowd likes different cars and different setups. At least they like cars, but not the ones we have or like. The younger people are into cars they have had or have. Just like us!
..... "ding, ding, ding, ding" ....... and that's only 80,000 people, PLUS COMPUTER TAMPERING ..... ever seen a Joe Biden rally ??? .... see any crowds supporting him wherever he goes??? .... do you like a leader that kills and abandons American citizens??? .... enjoy watching hundreds of thousands of illegal and infected people pour over our border and drag drugs and human traffickers along with them??? I don't know .... maybe I do too much research on national policies, but I can't find a single one that President Trump got wrong ....... and I can't find a single one that Biden has gotten RIGHT. The new slogan, "Biden, The Quicker Focker Upper" and "Let's Go Brandon" are expressing major displeasure with 'Little Joe' .... he is a complete failure that those 80,000 who voted for him are in total Trump Hatred Syndrome and can't see the light of day. The challenge is: name ONE national policy little Joe has done that has been good for We, The People.......... crickets.

Anyone can fock up a car any way they like ... as long as they are still safe to drive on the road .... more power to them for having an interesting hobby ..... but the minute you run into me and fock up MY car and MY health due to your own stupidity, then we have a problem. Several high school friends jacked up their cars so much, that they paid the ultimate price, unfortunately, not only taking their own lives, but lives of passengers with them. So yes, some of this crap is not only stupid, but deadly. Not much we can do about it .... it is the fate of the young .... only some will listen to common sense, and some will get lucky.

Now ...... back to our regular programming ........ :)
 

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The camber isn't used to lower the car, it's used to help fit massively wide wheels under their fenders. WIth 0 camber the wheels would poke multiple inches outside of the bodywork.

For instance there's normally no way you'd ever fit a 5.5" lip on the front wheels on an Acura Integra like this without extreme camber.

2021-10-13_09-39-23 by Kyle Mavis, on Flickr
Makes sense, but it still looks ridiculous. There's nothing "cool" about it. The only thing enjoyable about it is when you get to watch these guys scrape the crap out of their cars going over what should be a simple speed bump.
 

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..... "ding, ding, ding, ding" ....... and that's only 80,000 people, PLUS COMPUTER TAMPERING ..... ever seen a Joe Biden rally ??? .... see any crowds supporting him wherever he goes??? .... do you like a leader that kills and abandons American citizens??? .... enjoy watching hundreds of thousands of illegal and infected people pour over our border and drag drugs and human traffickers along with them??? I don't know .... maybe I do too much research on national policies, but I can't find a single one that President Trump got wrong ....... and I can't find a single one that Biden has gotten RIGHT. The new slogan, "Biden, The Quicker Focker Upper" and "Let's Go Brandon" are expressing major displeasure with 'Little Joe' .... he is a complete failure that those 80,000 who voted for him are in total Trump Hatred Syndrome and can't see the light of day. The challenge is: name ONE national policy little Joe has done that has been good for We, The People.......... crickets.

Anyone can fock up a car any way they like ... as long as they are still safe to drive on the road .... more power to them for having an interesting hobby ..... but the minute you run into me and fock up MY car and MY health due to your own stupidity, then we have a problem. Several high school friends jacked up their cars so much, that they paid the ultimate price, unfortunately, not only taking their own lives, but lives of passengers with them. So yes, some of this crap is not only stupid, but deadly. Not much we can do about it .... it is the fate of the young .... only some will listen to common sense, and some will get lucky.

Now ...... back to our regular programming ........ :)
Although I agree with both points made here separately, I dont see how they relate. I would say you really reached to stich these together. Also, maybe bringing politics into a discussion about extreme/silly car modification is a bit silly in and of itself.

I dont think it was the car modifications that killed anyone, it was the driver. Saying that because the truck is jacked up is why people died is along the same lines as blaming a firearm for someone being shot. When you say things like that it gives ammo to the anti-modifier crowd.
 

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I cant stand this stuff, but as has been mentioned before, to each their own.

I personally have more of a problem with people mis-badging their car (like the toyota with a shelby logo attached). WE all know they are idiots and what the car really is....its just the other dumbasses who seem to actually BELIEVE that is what that particular car says it is, and therefore believes their 2 cycle lawnmower car is therefore 'faster'.

But, even after saying that....My BIGGEST issue is with these lame brains who lift of lower their car so low that the bumper isn't at a legal height any longer. Too low? They are likely going to get beheaded in what would be just a possibly 'minor' wreck....ultimately their fault. But I wouldn't let one of my kids ride with them regardless.

Too High? They impair other drivers on the road from seeing (which I admit is no worse then being behind a semi that is perfectly legal). If someone were to get into an accident with them, that car and its passengers might suffer fatal injuries since the vehicle has been raised to such a ridiculous height that the bumpers no longer function as intended and are able to get into the passenger compartment of any vehicle they hit. If something like that was to befall anyone I knew, I'd make sure I helped in every way possible to sue the ever loving crap out of the driver/owner if it is at all possible for any injuries incurred from getting hit by them. I highly doubt anyone here reading this isn't already aware of it, but a famous actress back in the day (Jane Mansfield) was killed (and reportedly beheaded along with the rest of the passengers except for a baby), when they ran into the back of a semi late at night while driving a cadalac. The front end when completely under the end of the trailer up to (I think) the very back of the rear portion of the passenger compartment) That is why all semi's now have those longer extended metal bars that go much lower then the bottom of the container portion of the trailer by law.

I've never run a call like that fortunately, but can only imagine how bad that scene might have been.
I guess the lesson here is not to ram your car into the back of another car, truck or into anything for that reason. Suing because you don’t like what you ran into seems odd.
 

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#1 Mike!
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Although I agree with both points made here separately, I dont see how they relate. I would say you really reached to stich these together. Also, maybe bringing politics into a discussion about extreme/silly car modification is a bit silly in and of itself. I dont think it was the car modifications that killed anyone, it was the driver. Saying that because the truck is jacked up is why people died is along the same lines as blaming a firearm for someone being shot. When you say things like that it gives ammo to the anti-modifier crowd.
Leo1074: Severe modification of vehicle suspensions DO render them inherently dangerous to operate on public roads. Anyone with any understanding of suspension designs knows this. I don't agree with your stated belief that these extreme modifications do not contribute to accidents and it was only the driver. If you're implying that it's the driver who modified the suspension, etc. then I agree. Jacked up trucks do contribute to personal injury accidents. I've seen it. That's why States have vehicle height limitation laws for vehicles. I believe these severe modifications are for "the look" and do not contribute to any measure of operational safely. To my way of thinking, people who operate these severely modified vehicles on public highways are putting themselves, all other passengers, and all surrounding vehicle operators in danger. This is a fad and it will pass as most fads do. To date, I've not seen any of these severely modified vehicles being operated on the public highway where I live. We have laws that prohibit it and the police (what's left of them) enforce them. Just my take on the issue.
 

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Leo1074: Severe modification of vehicle suspensions DO render them inherently dangerous to operate on public roads. Anyone with any understanding of suspension designs knows this. I don't agree with your stated belief that these extreme modifications do not contribute to accidents and it was only the driver. If you're implying that it's the driver who modified the suspension, etc. then I agree. Jacked up trucks do contribute to personal injury accidents. I've seen it. That's why States have vehicle height limitation laws for vehicles. I believe these severe modifications are for "the look" and do not contribute to any measure of operational safely. To my way of thinking, people who operate these severely modified vehicles on public highways are putting themselves, all other passengers, and all surrounding vehicle operators in danger. This is a fad and it will pass as most fads do. To date, I've not seen any of these severely modified vehicles being operated on the public highway where I live. We have laws that prohibit it and the police (what's left of them) enforce them. Just my take on the issue.
Im simply saying that blaming inanimate objects on someone dying is nonsense. It's 100% on the driver. The lift/lower didn't kill anyone, the negligence of the operator did. If we are going to rabbit hole this, then all modifications can contribute to death. In this aspect, the majority of the people on this site are then all potential killers.

The current safety regulations for driving on the street are extremely outdated. The problem is that the irresponsible and terminally stupid continually prove that the laws cannot be revamped. For instance, the highway speed limit is based on safe stopping distance at 65mph(generally). However this was written when cars were much heavier and had terrible brakes. Cars now stop much faster from much higher speeds, so the 65mph limit is archaic at best.
 
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#1 Mike!
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Im simply saying that blaming inanimate objects on someone dying is nonsense. It's 100% on the driver. The lift/lower didn't kill anyone, the negligence of the operator did. If we are going to rabbit hole this, then all modifications can contribute to death. In this aspect, the majority of the people on this site are then all potential killers.

The current safety regulations for driving on the street are extremely outdated. The problem is that the irresponsible and terminally stupid continually prove that the laws cannot be revamped. For instance, the highway speed limit is based on safe stopping distance at 65mph(generally). However this was written when cars were much heavier and had terrible brakes. Cars now stop much faster from much higher speeds, so the 65mph limit is archaic at best.
I agree with you. The suspension's modifier is indeed the ultimately responsible person for the detrimental affect of modifying a suspension, wheel, tire, etc. Manufacturing company engineers design our cars to be safe and dependable. They do a damn good job. When we choose to make significant changes, we can unwittingly create a deterioration of that part's performance capabilities. The ultimate responsible party is the one who installed the modification. An attorney's dream come true!
I also agree that given the huge leaps in handling, braking, and safety features found in the average car today, our speed limits are oftentimes, unrealistic. The fly in the ointment is that the average driver has not made any significant improvements. They are on cell phones, texting, and oftentimes uninvolved in driving the car. In my opinion, they are far less competent then those drivers in years past! So the powers to be are probably making a wise decision in leaving the laws unchanged. If the same circumstances were in play in Germany, then the point would have some relevance as Germany actually trains it's drivers and as a result, they are some of the best, if not the best trained citizen drivers in the world.
 

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Although I agree with both points made here separately, I dont see how they relate. I would say you really reached to stich these together. Also, maybe bringing politics into a discussion about extreme/silly car modification is a bit silly in and of itself.

I dont think it was the car modifications that killed anyone, it was the driver. Saying that because the truck is jacked up is why people died is along the same lines as blaming a firearm for someone being shot. When you say things like that it gives ammo to the anti-modifier crowd.
I was just responding to an earlier post that touched on both subjects.

Had my friends in HS left their cars stock, they wouldn't have experienced the deteriorated handling the mods caused and would be alive today..... sure, they should have adjusted their driving skills (slowed down in corners), but once again, youth sometimes has to learn the hard way.
 

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Some of the visual modifications I made to my car when I was in high school may have decreased the safety of the vehicle but they were partly responsible for meeting and marrying my wife. So some modifications have benefits beyond roadworthiness. :D
 

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I agree with you. The suspension's modifier is indeed the ultimately responsible person for the detrimental affect of modifying a suspension, wheel, tire, etc. Manufacturing company engineers design our cars to be safe and dependable. They do a damn good job. When we choose to make significant changes, we can unwittingly create a deterioration of that part's performance capabilities. The ultimate responsible party is the one who installed the modification. An attorney's dream come true!
I also agree that given the huge leaps in handling, braking, and safety features found in the average car today, our speed limits are oftentimes, unrealistic. The fly in the ointment is that the average driver has not made any significant improvements. They are on cell phones, texting, and oftentimes uninvolved in driving the car. In my opinion, they are far less competent then those drivers in years past! So the powers to be are probably making a wise decision in leaving the laws unchanged. If the same circumstances were in play in Germany, then the point would have some relevance as Germany actually trains it's drivers and as a result, they are some of the best, if not the best trained citizen drivers in the world.
We've actually made cars more conducive to distracted driving. Touch screens, track apps, cars that even self-drive. Then people act surprised when something happens.
 

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Some of the visual modifications I made to my car when I was in high school may have decreased the safety of the vehicle but they were partly responsible for meeting and marrying my wife. So some modifications have benefits beyond roadworthiness. :D
This is probably a more unique scenario. Lol! Good for you though!!!
 
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#1 Mike!
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We've actually made cars more conducive to distracted driving. Touch screens, track apps, cars that even self-drive. Then people act surprised when something happens.
Again, great point and spot on! The dumbing down of society. Reminds me of the Disney movie, Wall-E! We are becoming those people!
 

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Along the same lines at least these kids are still part of the car culture. Who knows how long that will even be a thing anymore? The times when it's considered cool to upload fart sounds to your Tesla? We're already there. 🤦‍♂️
 

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Along the same lines at least these kids are still part of the car culture. Who knows how long that will even be a thing anymore? The times when it's considered cool to upload fart sounds to your Tesla? We're already there. 🤦‍♂️
I honestly think that the death of performance car culture will be when you can no longer fuel an ICE engine. There will still be visual and audio mods, but I personally don't feel that simply downloading your upgrade counts as a performance modification.
 
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