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2012 SVTPP with a heavy dose of 2013 components
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KB certainly leads you to believe they have 50 state legal kits for the GT500. Whipple's website did not, but I have been provided with an E.O. in a previous forum discussion that led me to believe Whipple had a kit at one time, and it didn't appear to be the Ford Racing version. But E.O.s have been around for at least 20 years. I'm sure the rules of the game change with time and it may be too costly to certify revisions in components. If what they currently sell doesn't have an O.E., it's not going to be compliant. If it were me, I'd contact KB and ask them for the E.O. number and look it up yourself, before purchasing the kit. On the other hand, until you explore the rules in MA, you may have other options in getting an exemption. I'm just thankful I don't have to put up with this nonsense just yet.
 

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Well, that ends that. Just received this in my email box, regardless what I was told- this seems to cancel it out... what a way to begin a day....This is NOT the arse I spoke to..
This is Official... WHIPPLE DOES NOT MAKE 50 STATE LEGAL SUPERCHARGER KITS!
Grr..
Looks like Kenne Bell?

Thanks for reaching out. We used to sell a kit through Ford Racing that was 50-State legal, but that has been discontinued. Our current line of 07-14 GT500 superchargers is intended for competition racing only.

Thank you,

Nick Purciello
Product Line Director

[email protected]
Nothing the matter with Kenne Bell. the 725 (later 750) kits were/are 50 state emissions friendly and were at first the optional install on the Super Snakes and then became the standard install when the HP numbers climbed to 800+ with the 3.6LC. <<<All of these HP figures are through the oem cast iron manifolds and oem cat forward exhaust (which is mandated to be 50 state compliant).

There have been several C.A.R.B. E.O. updates over the years for the same KB kits, the newest kits they sell have the latest E.O. number sticker, but on an older KB install this sometimes confuses a emissions test technician because if he/she does not do some historical research when the C.A.R.B. E.O. is looked up, an older install (E.O. number) can get a fail from the tech before any emissions tests have been performed. <<<This can also happen if an "new/old stock" KB kit is sold off the shelf by a vendor and that kit has an older E.O. sticker.

If I remember correctly, the first GT500 KB E.O. had a -16 suffix like mine from 2008, then it went to a -17 (I think 2009?) and then I think a -24 in 2011 or so? and then a newer -XX in 2015 or so, covering back to the first 2007........but it requires research on the emissions testers part to figure out what is/was correct for the time of the original certification before they declare that the E.O. number is incorrect and fail the inspection.

Here is the E.O. that relates to my 2008 Kenne Bell 725.....


Here is the -17, which also covers my 2008, but also added in 2009 GT500.....


Here is the -24 from 2012 that covers the 2013 GT500 (note called GT500KR 2007-2013, but called GT500 only further down in the document)


This -25 covering the 2014 GT500 (again labeled GT500KR 2007-2014)


..........and this -28 from 2015 covering the 2007-2014 GT500 (GT500KR labeled)...


^^^and this is where things get sticky at the emissions inspection. Let's say you have an older KB install OR you just bought the kit and did the install with an older E.O. number included in the new kit (old stock)? So the emissions inspection tech looks at the E.O. certification number in his system information and it is a newer -XX number than the sticker that came with your KB kit and then automatically fails the car for an incorrect E.O?........It has happened......ONLY through some additional research as I have shown above will they finally realize that "Yes", your specific year GT500 "is" covered under an earlier number.........but it has to be researched.........

Without looking, there may be a newer dated -XX number for the 2007-2014 GT500, later than the 2015 date -28 linked above (last)?

R
 

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2008 Shelby GT500, 18K, Suspension & Brakes all upgraded, engine
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11 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Nothing the matter with Kenne Bell. the 725 (later 750) kits were/are 50 state emissions friendly and were at first the optional install on the Super Snakes and then became the standard install when the HP numbers climbed to 800+ with the 3.6LC. <<<All of these HP figures are through the oem cast iron manifolds and oem cat forward exhaust (which is mandated to be 50 state compliant).

There have been several C.A.R.B. E.O. updates over the years for the same KB kits, the newest kits they sell have the latest E.O. number sticker, but on an older KB install this sometimes confuses a emissions test technician because if he/she does not do some historical research when the C.A.R.B. E.O. is looked up, an older install (E.O. number) can get a fail from the tech before any emissions tests have been performed. <<<This can also happen if an "new/old stock" KB kit is sold off the shelf by a vendor and that kit has an older E.O. sticker.

If I remember correctly, the first GT500 KB E.O. had a -16 suffix like mine from 2008, then it went to a -17 (I think 2009?) and then I think a -24 in 2011 or so? and then a newer -XX in 2015 or so, covering back to the first 2007........but it requires research on the emissions testers part to figure out what is/was correct for the time of the original certification before they declare that the E.O. number is incorrect and fail the inspection.

Here is the E.O. that relates to my 2008 Kenne Bell 725.....


Here is the -17, which also covers my 2008, but also added in 2009 GT500.....


Here is the -24 from 2012 that covers the 2013 GT500 (note called GT500KR 2007-2013, but called GT500 only further down in the document)


This -25 covering the 2014 GT500 (again labeled GT500KR 2007-2014)


..........and this -28 from 2015 covering the 2007-2014 GT500 (GT500KR labeled)...


^^^and this is where things get sticky at the emissions inspection. Let's say you have an older KB install OR you just bought the kit and did the install with an older E.O. number included in the new kit (old stock)? So the emissions inspection tech looks at the E.O. certification number in his system information and it is a newer -XX number than the sticker that came with your KB kit and then automatically fails the car for an incorrect E.O?........It has happened......ONLY through some additional research as I have shown above will they finally realize that "Yes", your specific year GT500 "is" covered under an earlier number.........but it has to be researched.........

Without looking, there may be a newer dated -XX number for the 2007-2014 GT500, later than the 2015 date -28 linked above (last)?

R
Hi Robert,
Thank you for the resourceful information, certainly looking out for potential issues. Since you also have an 08’, if you didn’t mind, was wondering if you could give me a little overall impression of how it’s working out for you, it’d help quite a bit! The Cars components, as I’m building an 09’ GT500 side hit; Totalled @ auction.
So 09’-1K+ RWHP. Cage/Drag.
08’-18K, 5/5 Car- Street.
I’m going to add any components (useful) I remove from the 08’ to the 09’ as I revert (close to) stock to run the new Supercharger on the street.
09’-maybe a Weekend car, race it @ Lebanon, NY. This will be built ground up. (Family owns 2 Auto Mach shops, fortunately have access to both).
Parts I have left over I can’t use for my 08’ GT500, 09’ GT500, 08’ GT, I’ll sell. Can you list on this site(?)
So- I’d reached out to Kenne Bell, was less than impressed with the level of knowledge regarding the product line, ended up with Sales & may have just been to whom which I spoke. Going to dig as deep as i can on everything you mentioned & per KB contained below...
I’d first sent a barrage of emails to KB for a Technical response to no avail., confirmed a kit was indeed available- my request slightly tweaking upwards to 700-750RWHP.
Received a clear & concise response. 3.2 (kit 3) or 3.6 (Kit 4). It’s one or the other, more likely the 3.6. The stock block & reciprocating assembly to myself, would be in too deep much above 850, 875BHP. 6060 Tranny is good for about 900HP as it’s built now. Chassis has (2) sets of 90 Deg. Perpendicular stiffeners, Bolted, Clamped, with Tendons.
4.10 FRPP Gears, Moser Install kit. Install this winter.
08’ GT500 Installed, Susp/Brakes:
Strange Axles (26 Spl), Bearings/Sp., Whiteline Watts Link Diff. cover, Adj. Panhard, Poly (W/Zerk) rear Links, White-line/ MMR/Roush Suspension front & rear, springs, Stabilizers, Gremeca Calipers (R), Brakes, about 6K$ installed now. Car squats & now hooks easily with Sticky Hoosiers.
09’ Engine Components not installed:
1) Nitrous Outlet 250-400HP Hardline Plate system. Purge/Sol./(2) Bottle(s) heater(s).
2) Kooks 304SS L.T. 2.0” Pri Headers., 304SS X Pipe 3”, Cutouts (Self designed & Fabbed).
3) CMCV Delete Plates
4) Livernois Heads #LPP760104, installed Inconel seats, Br. Guides, Manley valves, TI Retainers, Keepers, Lunati Springs for Cams below.(8.2k VFloat).
5) Lunati Custom ground Cams. 3,200-7.500R’s...
08’ GT500 Installed components:
1) Stock Eaton w/2.625” OD Upper.
2) 304SS Fluidampr.
3) Lunati Valve-springs.
4) Livernois Billet Timing Gears/Chains. Tensioners.
5) ARP Fasteners, G-8 (>/=) hardened Tool Steel.
6) 65mm Dual Butterfly FR CJet TB
7) VMG Tensioner/Idler
8) JLT C.Fiber CAI.
9) Pypes 3” Catback.
10) JLT Catch Cans
11) Billet Oil Pump
12) McLeod 1,200Ft/LB T.D Clutch/Lightened Steel Flywheel.
So, thinking I’d gain more thorough details, I gave KB a call, ended up with Sales vs Technical support.
Sought out Technical support, but were tied up working in the Dyno.
l’d vastly miscalculated to what degree the sales team could assist regarding fairly straightforward questions, considering their target products.
Thought maybe a naive rep., then, after speaking to the lead sales rep.realized it’s more chronic a deficit. Not outrageous to expect they should have a strong understanding of what they’re selling.
Information collected (so far) reflected the “50 State” kit(s) I’m viewing now were undergoing some revisions other Superchargers KB were already running in 2018.
Then the rep mentioned any changes to EO kits means starting from square one, an extensive recertification process. So, I’m interested to find (for certain) if I’ll be receiving the newly revised kit with an updated EO#.
This I’ll confirm with the Tech. Dep’t when I speak to them.
KB mentioned demand for FI has gone through the proverbial roof, likely due to many folks with time on their hands, gave me a 2 Mo ETA if I bought this kit tomorrow. Think a NOS Kit is not likely to occur, again- but, I’ll confirm.
I’d asked about the Injectors, running OE Injectors with a 250RWHP gain, duty cycle they’re running at, cranking up fuel pressure alone is not generally the most desirable approach for enriching an A/F ratio to such a large degree, nor is pulsing above 85-88% duty cycles. My missing something?
I’m supposed to be receiving a quote, for now- They mentioned very basic information, not running anything other than stock (that’ll foil Inspection or need Tune mod’s), the boost a pump (mentioning it’s voltage being >12- I’d asked if it was Pulse Width Modulated, controlling pump speed using that route is realistically the Goldline method as the Rep’s comments made little sense..was rewarded with an “umm” followed by a 10 second pause, lol.). I’d said “I’ll talk to the tech Dep’t, no worries”, he then resumed. Did your Pump come with a PWM driver board to fuel line press. Transducer?
75mm twin T/B, running the stock Intercooler (which I’d want to upgrade), 91 Octane- I’ve never run less than 93 (Not much room for any decent Advance. But, no Knock sensors on the 08’s, if not necessary- certainly safer with less timing being thrown at it- this suggests this Supercharger is hardly breaking a sweat @ 15lbs planting 725RWHP), lowering motor mounts, stock injectors (was thinking 72’s, 80’s)..a few others- I’d then asked..
IMRC delete, or at least a better flowing substitute..?
Colder plugs..?
Injectors, sizing- stock..?
-Sigh-, received another “Umm”..
I absolutely do have a high level of trust in Kenne Bell. I’ve run nostalgic KB’s, had a Lightning with a KB, they’ve been in the limelight for a long time with a very strong track record.
Just really taken aback at the limited knowledge when conversing with Sales- May just be new to it, we’ve all been thrown quite the curveball- things may be understandably be a bit off, unemployment, people in jobs not really their forte’ (but 2 guys, one a Sales Manager?).
Long story short, if you don’t mind- Question I have is really directed at this platform, being we’re both S197 platform GT500’s- both 08’s...what was your experience with the kit you bought, installed, quality of the components, did you upgrade your Intercooler, how accurate was their “one size fits all” Tune, are you really happy with it- was it what you’d expected?
I’m pretty sure I’ll get some clarity when I speak to someone there that really knows the systems inside out, but if you have any comments or recommendations from what helped the system as a whole, any upgrades you didn’t need to do yet did regardless, any information would be helpful. Apologies for the long dissertation, I’d had near every question answered by Whipple when we spoke over the phone, just trying to cover all the bases.
Thanks again!
Respectfully,
John
 

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Premium Member
2012 SVTPP with a heavy dose of 2013 components
Joined
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7,581 Posts
When I was looking at KB's EOs the other day, they all mention boost being limited to 12 psi. I don't know that you'll reach some of your hp targets at that boost level. I've read over KB's propaganda over the years and they push stock injectors with their boost-a-pump fueling in their kits, at least on the GT500 series. Anything needed beyond that they will consider it a "tuner-kit" and you have to get a third-party to tune the car. The few exchanges I've had with them, just pushed me to other platforms. I came away from the experience feeling that if I bought one of their superchargers, they were doing me the favor. But then, I don't need an EO. Good luck. Your '09 car sounds like it will be a beast.
 

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Hi Robert,
Thank you for the resourceful information, certainly looking out for potential issues. Since you also have an 08’, if you didn’t mind, was wondering if you could give me a little overall impression of how it’s working out for you, it’d help quite a bit! The Cars components, as I’m building an 09’ GT500 side hit; Totalled @ auction.
So 09’-1K+ RWHP. Cage/Drag.
08’-18K, 5/5 Car- Street.
I’m going to add any components (useful) I remove from the 08’ to the 09’ as I revert (close to) stock to run the new Supercharger on the street.
09’-maybe a Weekend car, race it @ Lebanon, NY. This will be built ground up. (Family owns 2 Auto Mach shops, fortunately have access to both).
Parts I have left over I can’t use for my 08’ GT500, 09’ GT500, 08’ GT, I’ll sell. Can you list on this site(?)
So- I’d reached out to Kenne Bell, was less than impressed with the level of knowledge regarding the product line, ended up with Sales & may have just been to whom which I spoke. Going to dig as deep as i can on everything you mentioned & per KB contained below...
I’d first sent a barrage of emails to KB for a Technical response to no avail., confirmed a kit was indeed available- my request slightly tweaking upwards to 700-750RWHP.
Received a clear & concise response. 3.2 (kit 3) or 3.6 (Kit 4). It’s one or the other, more likely the 3.6. The stock block & reciprocating assembly to myself, would be in too deep much above 850, 875BHP. 6060 Tranny is good for about 900HP as it’s built now. Chassis has (2) sets of 90 Deg. Perpendicular stiffeners, Bolted, Clamped, with Tendons.
4.10 FRPP Gears, Moser Install kit. Install this winter.
08’ GT500 Installed, Susp/Brakes:
Strange Axles (26 Spl), Bearings/Sp., Whiteline Watts Link Diff. cover, Adj. Panhard, Poly (W/Zerk) rear Links, White-line/ MMR/Roush Suspension front & rear, springs, Stabilizers, Gremeca Calipers (R), Brakes, about 6K$ installed now. Car squats & now hooks easily with Sticky Hoosiers.
09’ Engine Components not installed:
1) Nitrous Outlet 250-400HP Hardline Plate system. Purge/Sol./(2) Bottle(s) heater(s).
2) Kooks 304SS L.T. 2.0” Pri Headers., 304SS X Pipe 3”, Cutouts (Self designed & Fabbed).
3) CMCV Delete Plates
4) Livernois Heads #LPP760104, installed Inconel seats, Br. Guides, Manley valves, TI Retainers, Keepers, Lunati Springs for Cams below.(8.2k VFloat).
5) Lunati Custom ground Cams. 3,200-7.500R’s...
08’ GT500 Installed components:
1) Stock Eaton w/2.625” OD Upper.
2) 304SS Fluidampr.
3) Lunati Valve-springs.
4) Livernois Billet Timing Gears/Chains. Tensioners.
5) ARP Fasteners, G-8 (>/=) hardened Tool Steel.
6) 65mm Dual Butterfly FR CJet TB
7) VMG Tensioner/Idler
8) JLT C.Fiber CAI.
9) Pypes 3” Catback.
10) JLT Catch Cans
11) Billet Oil Pump
12) McLeod 1,200Ft/LB T.D Clutch/Lightened Steel Flywheel.
So, thinking I’d gain more thorough details, I gave KB a call, ended up with Sales vs Technical support.
Sought out Technical support, but were tied up working in the Dyno.
l’d vastly miscalculated to what degree the sales team could assist regarding fairly straightforward questions, considering their target products.
Thought maybe a naive rep., then, after speaking to the lead sales rep.realized it’s more chronic a deficit. Not outrageous to expect they should have a strong understanding of what they’re selling.
Information collected (so far) reflected the “50 State” kit(s) I’m viewing now were undergoing some revisions other Superchargers KB were already running in 2018.
Then the rep mentioned any changes to EO kits means starting from square one, an extensive recertification process. So, I’m interested to find (for certain) if I’ll be receiving the newly revised kit with an updated EO#.
This I’ll confirm with the Tech. Dep’t when I speak to them.
KB mentioned demand for FI has gone through the proverbial roof, likely due to many folks with time on their hands, gave me a 2 Mo ETA if I bought this kit tomorrow. Think a NOS Kit is not likely to occur, again- but, I’ll confirm.
I’d asked about the Injectors, running OE Injectors with a 250RWHP gain, duty cycle they’re running at, cranking up fuel pressure alone is not generally the most desirable approach for enriching an A/F ratio to such a large degree, nor is pulsing above 85-88% duty cycles. My missing something?
I’m supposed to be receiving a quote, for now- They mentioned very basic information, not running anything other than stock (that’ll foil Inspection or need Tune mod’s), the boost a pump (mentioning it’s voltage being >12- I’d asked if it was Pulse Width Modulated, controlling pump speed using that route is realistically the Goldline method as the Rep’s comments made little sense..was rewarded with an “umm” followed by a 10 second pause, lol.). I’d said “I’ll talk to the tech Dep’t, no worries”, he then resumed. Did your Pump come with a PWM driver board to fuel line press. Transducer?
75mm twin T/B, running the stock Intercooler (which I’d want to upgrade), 91 Octane- I’ve never run less than 93 (Not much room for any decent Advance. But, no Knock sensors on the 08’s, if not necessary- certainly safer with less timing being thrown at it- this suggests this Supercharger is hardly breaking a sweat @ 15lbs planting 725RWHP), lowering motor mounts, stock injectors (was thinking 72’s, 80’s)..a few others- I’d then asked..
IMRC delete, or at least a better flowing substitute..?
Colder plugs..?
Injectors, sizing- stock..?
-Sigh-, received another “Umm”..
I absolutely do have a high level of trust in Kenne Bell. I’ve run nostalgic KB’s, had a Lightning with a KB, they’ve been in the limelight for a long time with a very strong track record.
Just really taken aback at the limited knowledge when conversing with Sales- May just be new to it, we’ve all been thrown quite the curveball- things may be understandably be a bit off, unemployment, people in jobs not really their forte’ (but 2 guys, one a Sales Manager?).
Long story short, if you don’t mind- Question I have is really directed at this platform, being we’re both S197 platform GT500’s- both 08’s...what was your experience with the kit you bought, installed, quality of the components, did you upgrade your Intercooler, how accurate was their “one size fits all” Tune, are you really happy with it- was it what you’d expected?
I’m pretty sure I’ll get some clarity when I speak to someone there that really knows the systems inside out, but if you have any comments or recommendations from what helped the system as a whole, any upgrades you didn’t need to do yet did regardless, any information would be helpful. Apologies for the long dissertation, I’d had near every question answered by Whipple when we spoke over the phone, just trying to cover all the bases.
Thanks again!
Respectfully,
John
All of your questions and information above is way beyond my 2008 Super Snake. I received my car back from Shelby in January 2009, it has been a Great car from a dependability standpoint. Way back in the early days, if I had questions I would talk to Matt at KB, since that time Matt has left and I talk to Rick. I was in direct email contact Rick up until the Covid 19 thing, in fact I gave Jim Bells wife a credit card number on the Friday evening when they were being closed down in CA. for Covid, I bought a 3.2LC.

Just for some info., the 3.2LC and the 3.6LC both are 800HP+ blowers, the 3.2 uses the smaller 2.8 size case and the 3.6 uses the taller case shared with the 4.2 and larger. I have some pictures I will have to find showing both side-by-side.

^^^^That is through cast iron manifolds and the 2007-2012 is rated at 800HP with the 3.6 and the 2013/14 is rated at 850 with that same blower. The 3.6 has a huge pulley and is making those 800+ numbers and the 3.2 has a smaller (but still larger than the 2.8 pulley) for the 800+ rating.

As for mods on my car, I did the FRPP shorty headers along with a full 3" mandrel bent exhaust that was called the "Super Snake 700+) optional exhaust system that Shelby offered for the Super Snake back in the early days, it was not something Shelby could install ass part of the upgrade because it would void the 50 state warranty, but it was sold through Shelby Perf. Parts and that is where I bought it. <<<That exhaust upgrade alone (oem 2.5" to 3"), with no other changes to my car provided a very noticeable "seat of the pants" upgrade in engine performance through the entire rpm range. I have done some Alcoa widening (spares purchased for that project), to get some additional rubber on the rear, to be honest, the car was dangerous with the 275's on the back and the original 10" Alcoa's. 325's have for the most part fixed that.

The only "problem" that I had was a high-idle issue when I would stop at a red light.......The engine would hang at 1200-1300, I could sometimes "tap the pedal" and it would come down, and sometimes not, it was annoying to pull up to a traffic signal in a 3" exhaust 725 Super Snake and the car idles fast and then me trying to tap it down.......all eyes were looking at me, and I am not into that......After a few years I decided to contact KB and it ended up there was a tune update along with some dual 75mm TB upgrades, so I did all of that about 3 years ago and have had no other issues, it runs fine. That newer updated tune also bumped my car from the original 725 up to the 750 level, still with the original 2.8 (not liquid cooled). In the end, it has been a good car...........and I have bought most all of the upgrades from Shelby Perf. Parts that came along after my car was built, some of which I have installed, but most of those upgrades are still in boxes, install dates TBD.......

I am kind of focused on getting a Magnum XL and getting rid of that "remote shifter" set up, since Shelby installed the 3.73's in my car, replacing the oem 3.31's, I would also do the XL with a 2.66 first gear vs. the 2.97 that is in the car now.

R
 

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2008 Shelby GT500, 18K, Suspension & Brakes all upgraded, engine
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11 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
When I was looking at KB's EOs the other day, they all mention boost being limited to 12 psi. I don't know that you'll reach some of your hp targets at that boost level. I've read over KB's propaganda over the years and they push stock injectors with their boost-a-pump fueling in their kits, at least on the GT500 series. Anything needed beyond that they will consider it a "tuner-kit" and you have to get a third-party to tune the car. The few exchanges I've had with them, just pushed me to other platforms. I came away from the experience feeling that if I bought one of their superchargers, they were doing me the favor. But then, I don't need an EO. Good luck. Your '09 car sounds like it will be a beast.
Hi,
You nailed that one right on the head about the boost- I was told 15lbs, and 725RWHP sounded within reach, when you mentioned 10-11lbs- that’s about where it sits now. the quote they prepared & emailed was there- said 15lbs, header “2013+”.
I looked at the 13+ GT500’s kits on the site & it was identical to what they’d sent me..
So, I’d called & found out I’d indeed received the 13+ GT500 kit spec’s..
Mistakes happen, Providing they’re caught-no harm done I guess.
Was fortunate to talk with Jim, all areas were covered, output expectations, had an in-depth mechanical and electronics discussion regarding the variations between the applicable kit(s). Now things are confirmed by a solid KB source.
KB does use PWM for altering pump output, best technology for the app, now makes sense why injectors of stock size are trusted for vast leaps in psrformance increases, hundreds to thousands of times a second, SCR works but creates excess electrical noise the electrical system would be affected by without isolation, and straight DC voltage change is power consuming, archaic, is on the slow side.
So, the Kit I’m seeking narrowed down to the 3.2, the 3.6 kit will require clearances beyond mounts (Some have fit an identical year S197 with K-members, bushings, lower mounts- others, not.).
If Tolerances stack up in your favor, it’ll fit. If not- without a SuperSnake or Cervini hood with more space, it’s a shot in the dark.
I’m trying to maintain its external OE appearance.
I can also plant into the low-mid 700RW range with a 3.2 & a Pulley swap. Bolt in & unbolt, that’s works for me, I’ll sink the extra coin into the better Intercooler & radiator, TB, etc.
With the large TB & all else it looks like a 6K$ upgrade, see what the new quote reflects, thanks for all the help, guys (again, lol).
Hope this will help someone else considering an S197 Shelby Eaton upgrade, simplify the process, Kenne Bell is really the only answer if within a CARB restricted state..Great either way!
That white Shelby GT500 of yours is gorgeous, btw!
Thanks!
John
 

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Hi,
You nailed that one right on the head about the boost- I was told 15lbs, and 725RWHP sounded within reach, when you mentioned 10-11lbs- that’s about where it sits now. the quote they prepared & emailed was there- said 15lbs, header “2013+”.
I looked at the 13+ GT500’s kits on the site & it was identical to what they’d sent me..
So, I’d called & found out I’d indeed received the 13+ GT500 kit spec’s..
Mistakes happen, Providing they’re caught-no harm done I guess.
Was fortunate to talk with Jim, all areas were covered, output expectations, had an in-depth mechanical and electronics discussion regarding the variations between the applicable kit(s). Now things are confirmed by a solid KB source.
KB does use PWM for altering pump output, best technology for the app, now makes sense why injectors of stock size are trusted for vast leaps in psrformance increases, hundreds to thousands of times a second, SCR works but creates excess electrical noise the electrical system would be affected by without isolation, and straight DC voltage change is power consuming, archaic, is on the slow side.
So, the Kit I’m seeking narrowed down to the 3.2, the 3.6 kit will require clearances beyond mounts (Some have fit an identical year S197 with K-members, bushings, lower mounts- others, not.).
If Tolerances stack up in your favor, it’ll fit. If not- without a SuperSnake or Cervini hood with more space, it’s a shot in the dark.
I’m trying to maintain its external OE appearance.
I can also plant into the low-mid 700RW range with a 3.2 & a Pulley swap. Bolt in & unbolt, that’s works for me, I’ll sink the extra coin into the better Intercooler & radiator, TB, etc.
With the large TB & all else it looks like a 6K$ upgrade, see what the new quote reflects, thanks for all the help, guys (again, lol).
Hope this will help someone else considering an S197 Shelby Eaton upgrade, simplify the process, Kenne Bell is really the only answer if within a CARB restricted state..Great either way!
That white Shelby GT500 of yours is gorgeous, btw!
Thanks!
John
Yes on the 3.6 and clearances, the front left side of the intake will touch the blower case and require some material to be removed to install the blower. I have a GT500 lower here with the mod. already done to show the extent of material removed. I can get it out and take a picture if you want to see it?

The 3.2 bolts in place like the 2.8 and does not require intake clearance mods, however yes, there may be hood contact with either, even with lowering mounts when you are using the oem hood.

R
 

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2008 Shelby GT500, 18K, Suspension & Brakes all upgraded, engine
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Discussion Starter #28
Hi Robert,
Was going to give you a specific response to thank you personally for all your help. Aaaand mention I feel like a moron for not viewing your car’s pic with the SS hood, right there in front of me, lol! Initially believed you had a std. 08’ Shelby GT500 like myself..
If it’s not too much trouble it’d certainly be appreciated regarding the pic of the lower to gain some perspective regarding scale, still haven’t made up my mind yet as to what size I’m reaching for here.
Room for aggressive expansion is something I highly value, bigger blower to hit my goal= less heat.
Filling that lust for power is what the 09’ GT500 was supposed to be for, and my 77’ 532CID Z-28 before that, all efforts to leave the 08’ GT500 bone stock. As you already deduced, they haven’t worked so well.
So, yes- pic’s would be great! At BMC right now & is quite busy.
Take care!
Best
John
 

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Hi Robert,
Was going to give you a specific response to thank you personally for all your help. Aaaand mention I feel like a moron for not viewing your car’s pic with the SS hood, right there in front of me, lol! Initially believed you had a std. 08’ Shelby GT500 like myself..
If it’s not too much trouble it’d certainly be appreciated regarding the pic of the lower to gain some perspective regarding scale, still haven’t made up my mind yet as to what size I’m reaching for here.
Room for aggressive expansion is something I highly value, bigger blower to hit my goal= less heat.
Filling that lust for power is what the 09’ GT500 was supposed to be for, and my 77’ 532CID Z-28 before that, all efforts to leave the 08’ GT500 bone stock. As you already deduced, they haven’t worked so well.
So, yes- pic’s would be great! At BMC right now & is quite busy.
Take care!
Best
John
John - Don't ever feel like a moron with anything related to me.......All is good!

Here is the lower intake that is modded for the larger 3.6KB case.......



It is the left (drivers side) "boss" that needs material removed for the larger case KB install......It is not a major mod, but without the material removed, the larger KB will not line up with the bolt hole attachments......





.......a comparo to the right side "boss" which Does Not require modification......



This lower has also been modified for the KB BIGUN I/C install. For full I/C air flow functionality, the rectangle opening has to be enlarged (opened up).......



R
 

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Adding to my info. above.........

Also keep in mind, the KB S/C's do not bolt directly to the lower intake as is the case with many/most of the other blowers, KB uses a blower plate that attaches to the lower, then the S/C bolts to the blower plate.

Front of plate toward the left.......I believe KB calls this a "discharge plate" and the opening angles the air flow toward the I/C as shown in the "machined ramp" in the front of the rectangle opening, of course all of this lining up with the outlet of the blower......



^^^^This plate almost adds a "quick change" feature to a KB install or blower swap.....

R
 

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2008 Shelby GT500, 18K, Suspension & Brakes all upgraded, engine
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11 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
Hi Richard,
I See the chamfer revision detail performed on the lower’s L.F. Casting Boss,and the rectangular opening resizing mod.for the upgraded IC’s distribution. Sweep of a Mill will do it, since it’s available. If you want it milled, I’ll do it for you.
I’d have to do the same detail on the boss with that kit, if I go that way. Again, toe clamp to the table & insert a taper mill.
Thanks once again for the help!
I Never sought advanced experience with the GT500’s factory FI beyond how vulnerable the internals were. Pan needs to be pulled on the 2008 to swap pumps, S550’s don’t I believe.
I’m really studying the induction system now- it interesting having the plate between- easily swapping the supercharger if desired, & studying their further spawns E.G, Super Snakes, KR’s, 1,000, etc..
Only think I realized quick, when I’d received mine, was it couldn’t plant the RWHP it already had, was nose heavy- but I still like it more every time I look at it. Black is the worst to keep clean- pollen in Mass sticks like a magnet.
Can’t put a price tag on courtesy, Since I can’t sling a few Beers or at least a cup of Coffee with you, or anybody else whose really responded quickly- or anyone on the site.....
if anyone’s got a migraine inducing evasive issue or a build question for an 79’93’ Fox, engine swap/EEC question, an SN95, New Edge, S197, Coyote S550, Ranger, 2.3 Turbocoupe. V-6 S/C, Saleens, SVT’s in between, 03, 04’ FI Termi, may be a Wife’s or Kid’s Car, whatever they’ve got..
I’ve Ford/GM/Dodge Manuals for most, I’m current- know where the guality parts are the cheapest, have PATS training & non Customer Codes, spent many years working & training on them, and most other Domestics & Imports.Im sure many here can blow me out of the water, and are perfectly capable- sometimes problems seem to defy Isaac Newton’s Physics findings, Ohms Law, logic in general, lol.
I have a side Business and I’m still building (mostly from New Edge back) for HP/TQ, or economy, failures, folks just stuck, burnt out, I volunteer on SN, “08GT500” and if there’s some way I can assist with safety or function- please PM me & I’d be happy to throw in my +.02, to those that may want quick repairs, a diagram, etc.
Money’s too darn crazy tight these days, Almost a crime not adding it to the Shelby’s, lol.
Pretty sure you know where I’m coming from, it’s not a need, more of an open offer if anyone’s interested.
Anyhow, you’d mentioned even the 3.2 May still contact the stock GT500 hood when installed? As Jim Belll mentioned, the 3.6l has cleared, yet in most cases -has not .
Sounds like something that could be amended- you think? Not only guaranteeing the 3.2 would never have interference, but to fit the more stout 3.6 into an S197 w/a stock hood.?
And a pretty direct route to make it happen, frame tolerances are pretty tight, Supercharger’s dead accurate.
Went to a Voke HS, and was a combo Metal fabrication, Automotive/light machining/Auto body, with Frame Rack, Pneumatic over Hydraulic, or Concrete structural buried Rectangular 3/4” plate Anchor 2” parallel to the floor, to make power post pulls up to 3.5T (Cumulative), using laser guided Tram gauges for alignment, they had to be within tolerances within a timeframe to pass that portion of the course
Metal fab was to be certain any heavy frame welds were solid (required by the NTHSA) welding 24” high pressure steam Boiler piping 15/30/45/90* sweeps or Flanges with 60* Bevels, Carbon-Carbon, Carbon to Stainless (ER309) & Stainless- Stainless. Then it was flat stock welded in all positions, including confined spaces (SCBA required). Specimens were cut out of each, randomly for 2nd party analysis to pass that one portion of the course.
Seemed it Was fairly intense for what it was, my dad was a Fitter- struck my first arc quite young (rather “Stuck” than “Struck”, lol).
Experience helped for certain.
Frame rack in AutoBody had the Vehicle’s VIN(s). I was viewing Computer generated drawings with the Blackhawk P-188 Frame rack, tolerances of all pulls were 1/16”, even 1/32nd in some Vectors.
I’m suggesting that - these days, frames should all be so close, and will find out 100%, why wouldn’t all 3.6l kits clear if “some did”?
If mounts would be made to accept offset bushings; non Concentric, front and rear- bolt goes through, not locks them on- slot in the middle once bolted loose means the both turn from either front of back. once the stamped arrow on the front bushing points down- (say 4 different colors for 4 different heights), making them out of stainless hex stock (or possibly external holes for a spanner wrench to get in & rotate easily), rotating with either wrench outside, the motor would then drop -within 1/8” min clearance from Pan to Cross member, will anything else be affected negatively, by dropping it and then the Trans also equally the same?
(5) possibles stand out...(07’-10’)
1) Driveshaft May end up too long if you lowered both motor & trans- angle.
2)Exhaust system may be rigid as bends may not be tight enough.
3)Wiring or any solid lines may have to be appropriately revised/repaired..
4)Shifter height; interference..
5) Any Suspension component interference..
This to possibly gain some clearance up top, run the 3.6 with a stock GT500 Hood w/Heat extractors.
the I’ve already asked KB about both the 3.2 & the 3.6 drawings to scale which would show the 3.2 and the 3.6 in the vehicle with the hood open, and the hood closed, seeking both physical dimensions on both the 3.2l & 3.6L sitting on the 5.4l and the 5.8l motor’s with the confidential dimensions not printed. Will show it with maximum drop I suggested, Trans dropped equally as the motor is, minimal of 1/8” air gap between the pan and crossmember.
KB is fine with releasing these drawing to me.
For a tiny sum of money, a kit to allow running the larger system while retaining the stock appeal would seem well worth it. (30-45$/Mass, 303SS, 3/3” wall, sold for 60$/kit).
If I recall, he coined “one Shelby was probably built on a Monday, the other- Friday” (jokingly, but point made). The components swapped to drop the motor were the motor mounts, K-Members.
If it’s fit before with tolerances being on the tight side, and at the KB factory is where one actually did fit with nobody making some brackets to make it fit. It stands to reason it will again fit under hood with more clearance available, the trans will come down dead level with the motor.
As drawings are not in hand, the only thing I’m certain of is there’s quite a bit of room between the Pan and the Crossmember, just need to know how much taller the 3.6KB is than the 3.2KB, the ‘silver bullet’, so to speak.
Thanks again! Let me know what you think of the concept at your convenience, if it sounds viable, or from your views of having this on a motor, it’ll take until next week to get the views, but haven’t scoured the internet yet to get actual differences in the two supercharger, if any other mods may be required to make it work, if KB would be willing to do that to ante up the market demand for the 2.6, vs 3.2, I don’t believe they’ll go very far, still seems like an addictive concept.
Ok, take care!
John
P.S.: Does a large group from the site try to attend the Shelbyfest in May, think its in PA, may be others. If it’s worth it, going to use it as a target of full completion. Thx.
 

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Hi Richard,
I See the chamfer revision detail performed on the lower’s L.F. Casting Boss,and the rectangular opening resizing mod.for the upgraded IC’s distribution. Sweep of a Mill will do it, since it’s available. If you want it milled, I’ll do it for you.
I’d have to do the same detail on the boss with that kit, if I go that way. Again, toe clamp to the table & insert a taper mill.
Thanks once again for the help!
I Never sought advanced experience with the GT500’s factory FI beyond how vulnerable the internals were. Pan needs to be pulled on the 2008 to swap pumps, S550’s don’t I believe.
I’m really studying the induction system now- it interesting having the plate between- easily swapping the supercharger if desired, & studying their further spawns E.G, Super Snakes, KR’s, 1,000, etc..
Only think I realized quick, when I’d received mine, was it couldn’t plant the RWHP it already had, was nose heavy- but I still like it more every time I look at it. Black is the worst to keep clean- pollen in Mass sticks like a magnet.
Can’t put a price tag on courtesy, Since I can’t sling a few Beers or at least a cup of Coffee with you, or anybody else whose really responded quickly- or anyone on the site.....
if anyone’s got a migraine inducing evasive issue or a build question for an 79’93’ Fox, engine swap/EEC question, an SN95, New Edge, S197, Coyote S550, Ranger, 2.3 Turbocoupe. V-6 S/C, Saleens, SVT’s in between, 03, 04’ FI Termi, may be a Wife’s or Kid’s Car, whatever they’ve got..
I’ve Ford/GM/Dodge Manuals for most, I’m current- know where the guality parts are the cheapest, have PATS training & non Customer Codes, spent many years working & training on them, and most other Domestics & Imports.Im sure many here can blow me out of the water, and are perfectly capable- sometimes problems seem to defy Isaac Newton’s Physics findings, Ohms Law, logic in general, lol.
I have a side Business and I’m still building (mostly from New Edge back) for HP/TQ, or economy, failures, folks just stuck, burnt out, I volunteer on SN, “08GT500” and if there’s some way I can assist with safety or function- please PM me & I’d be happy to throw in my +.02, to those that may want quick repairs, a diagram, etc.
Money’s too darn crazy tight these days, Almost a crime not adding it to the Shelby’s, lol.
Pretty sure you know where I’m coming from, it’s not a need, more of an open offer if anyone’s interested.
Anyhow, you’d mentioned even the 3.2 May still contact the stock GT500 hood when installed? As Jim Belll mentioned, the 3.6l has cleared, yet in most cases -has not .
Sounds like something that could be amended- you think? Not only guaranteeing the 3.2 would never have interference, but to fit the more stout 3.6 into an S197 w/a stock hood.?
And a pretty direct route to make it happen, frame tolerances are pretty tight, Supercharger’s dead accurate.
Went to a Voke HS, and was a combo Metal fabrication, Automotive/light machining/Auto body, with Frame Rack, Pneumatic over Hydraulic, or Concrete structural buried Rectangular 3/4” plate Anchor 2” parallel to the floor, to make power post pulls up to 3.5T (Cumulative), using laser guided Tram gauges for alignment, they had to be within tolerances within a timeframe to pass that portion of the course
Metal fab was to be certain any heavy frame welds were solid (required by the NTHSA) welding 24” high pressure steam Boiler piping 15/30/45/90* sweeps or Flanges with 60* Bevels, Carbon-Carbon, Carbon to Stainless (ER309) & Stainless- Stainless. Then it was flat stock welded in all positions, including confined spaces (SCBA required). Specimens were cut out of each, randomly for 2nd party analysis to pass that one portion of the course.
Seemed it Was fairly intense for what it was, my dad was a Fitter- struck my first arc quite young (rather “Stuck” than “Struck”, lol).
Experience helped for certain.
Frame rack in AutoBody had the Vehicle’s VIN(s). I was viewing Computer generated drawings with the Blackhawk P-188 Frame rack, tolerances of all pulls were 1/16”, even 1/32nd in some Vectors.
I’m suggesting that - these days, frames should all be so close, and will find out 100%, why wouldn’t all 3.6l kits clear if “some did”?
If mounts would be made to accept offset bushings; non Concentric, front and rear- bolt goes through, not locks them on- slot in the middle once bolted loose means the both turn from either front of back. once the stamped arrow on the front bushing points down- (say 4 different colors for 4 different heights), making them out of stainless hex stock (or possibly external holes for a spanner wrench to get in & rotate easily), rotating with either wrench outside, the motor would then drop -within 1/8” min clearance from Pan to Cross member, will anything else be affected negatively, by dropping it and then the Trans also equally the same?
(5) possibles stand out...(07’-10’)
1) Driveshaft May end up too long if you lowered both motor & trans- angle.
2)Exhaust system may be rigid as bends may not be tight enough.
3)Wiring or any solid lines may have to be appropriately revised/repaired..
4)Shifter height; interference..
5) Any Suspension component interference..
This to possibly gain some clearance up top, run the 3.6 with a stock GT500 Hood w/Heat extractors.
the I’ve already asked KB about both the 3.2 & the 3.6 drawings to scale which would show the 3.2 and the 3.6 in the vehicle with the hood open, and the hood closed, seeking both physical dimensions on both the 3.2l & 3.6L sitting on the 5.4l and the 5.8l motor’s with the confidential dimensions not printed. Will show it with maximum drop I suggested, Trans dropped equally as the motor is, minimal of 1/8” air gap between the pan and crossmember.
KB is fine with releasing these drawing to me.
For a tiny sum of money, a kit to allow running the larger system while retaining the stock appeal would seem well worth it. (30-45$/Mass, 303SS, 3/3” wall, sold for 60$/kit).
If I recall, he coined “one Shelby was probably built on a Monday, the other- Friday” (jokingly, but point made). The components swapped to drop the motor were the motor mounts, K-Members.
If it’s fit before with tolerances being on the tight side, and at the KB factory is where one actually did fit with nobody making some brackets to make it fit. It stands to reason it will again fit under hood with more clearance available, the trans will come down dead level with the motor.
As drawings are not in hand, the only thing I’m certain of is there’s quite a bit of room between the Pan and the Crossmember, just need to know how much taller the 3.6KB is than the 3.2KB, the ‘silver bullet’, so to speak.
Thanks again! Let me know what you think of the concept at your convenience, if it sounds viable, or from your views of having this on a motor, it’ll take until next week to get the views, but haven’t scoured the internet yet to get actual differences in the two supercharger, if any other mods may be required to make it work, if KB would be willing to do that to ante up the market demand for the 2.6, vs 3.2, I don’t believe they’ll go very far, still seems like an addictive concept.
Ok, take care!
John
P.S.: Does a large group from the site try to attend the Shelbyfest in May, think its in PA, may be others. If it’s worth it, going to use it as a target of full completion. Thx.
The only reason I mentioned the 3.2LC "possibly" touching the oem hood is because there were owners in the early days who installed 2.8's and I remember some mentioning some touching, maybe it was only the hood insulator pad, maybe some had no contact at all, I don't remember and the lower mount kit may have fixed all of that?

Below is my original 2.8, the 3.2LC is the same case width and height. The difference in height with the 3.6LC case and the smaller case KB's is that the "step" where the case attaches to the inlet, there is no "step up" at the inlet on the 3.6, it is straight/flat from front of case to rear of inlet.....I think it 1/2" or maybe 5/8" difference? I have a better picture somewhere that was provided by KB to the magazines when the 3.6LC was first introduced......



If I were to install the 3.6LC (that I already own), it would come up to the bottom of my Super Snake strut tower brace, my only two options would be to either remove my cool Super Snake STB and keep the non-NVH motor mounts that are oem to my 2008 OR install the 1/2" lowering mounts which "may" introduce NVH and keep the STB installed......I REALLY like my polished Super Snake STB that is now obsolete from Shelby, and I really don't want any Noise Vibration or Harmonics introduced into my passenger compartment...and another thought, that 3.6LC is massive looking, why partially cover it up with a STB?......Show it off "Big and Proud!".....LOL!!!

R
 

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Here is the picture from the magazine article showing the smaller case and the larger case side-by-side.......



It was from this magazine feature when Jim Bell installed a 3.6LC on his personal Grabber Orange Super Snake.....



Note the unique looking pulley on the 3.6....

R
 
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