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Need Upgrade Help Advice (pulley, port, intake, tune injectors, headers)

2020+ 
7K views 98 replies 15 participants last post by  Blue Not Black 
#1 ·
So I'm fixing to start upgrading my 21 and I have a list of mods I want to do to it. I would like to get some feedback on what I need now vs what can wait to be bought and installed later. I've been reading and it appears that the fuel rails could be added later, and the Gforce axles upgraded later. Anything else I'm missing or other suggestions?

Stainless Works headers2" x 3" headers
Lethal Performance resonator deleteH-Pipe delete
Nitto (front 305/35R20)NT555 G2
Nitto (rear, 315/35R20)NT555 RII
Kong 108mm Throttle Body108 Billet
Injector DynamicsID1300x
NKG Iridium IXLTR7IX-11
Palm Beach Motorsport Heat Exchanger
Whipple Superchargers1" - 1" Intercooler
SPE IC Manifold - Whipple
SPE Thermostat
LP Griptec2.5" Pulley Kit
Gates 8 Rib HD BeltK080670HD
SPE Fuel Rail Kit
Whipple SuperchargersBelt Tensironer
Jokerz PerformanceSC porting
Gforce PerformanceFOR10115A Axles
SPE Vertical Links
Kelltrac IRS Subframe Posi-Loc
Palm Beach Motorsport Tuning
 
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#4 ·
Okay, I'll admit ... I'm just an old fart, but these cars are so dang good right out of the box, you really don't need to do anything to enjoy them for street/strip. I know ... I know ... I'm on the wrong forum, but over the years, I have seen so many "performance cars" tinkered with and butchered up, ONLY to be returned to 'stock' for reliability and enjoyability reasons, that I warn many new owners of the headaches and pains they will go through to only make modest gains and no increase in the pleasure of ownership or driving on the street. These vehicles are fantastic performers and sometimes I feel the need to express some caution when modifying them .... other than that .... many others will gladly help you with good advice and experience on this Forum.

I just think back and wish I had my bone stock, 1970 Chevelle SS396 back in my garage ..... it really needed nothing for the street.

Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Hood



Good luck and I wish you only the best !!! :)
 
#5 ·
So I'm fixing to start upgrading my 21 and I have a list of mods I want to do to it. I would like to get some feedback on what I need now vs what can wait to be bought and installed later. I've been reading and it appears that the fuel rails could be added later, and the Gforce axles upgraded later. Anything else I'm missing or other suggestions?

Stainless Works headers2" x 3" headers
Lethal Performance resonator deleteH-Pipe delete
Nitto (front 305/35R20)NT555 G2
Nitto (rear, 315/35R20)NT555 RII
Kong 108mm Throttle Body108 Billet
Injector DynamicsID1300x
NKG Iridium IXLTR7IX-11
Palm Beach MotorsportHeat Exchanger
Whipple Superchargers1" - 1" Intercooler
SPEIC Manifold - Whipple
SPEThermostat
LP Griptec2.5" Pulley Kit
Gates 8 Rib HD BeltK080670HD
SPEFuel Rail Kit
Whipple SuperchargersBelt Tensironer
Jokerz PerformanceSC porting
Gforce PerformanceFOR10115A Axles
SPEVertical Links
KelltracIRS Subframe Posi-Loc
Palm Beach MotorsportTuning
The only thing on your list that I’ve done is the Kelltrac Posi-Loc mod:

 
#6 ·
I tend to do things that are part of the same systems. You mention fuel rails. While they're not completely necessary, if you intend to upgrade them, I'd do those along with the supercharger port, intercooler and injectors. Maybe I'm just lazy, but unless I'm upgrading something again I try to complete a system all at the same time.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Definitely do all those mods all at once, you don't want to be going back for a second time. Also the spark plugs at that time. Also something I have come across while modding these cars in regards to pulley size if you don't plan on going crazy chasing numbers. I'm currently running 2.7 clutched pulley and love it not using any after maker tensioner or auxiliary tensioner and get no belt slip or TONS of belt dust. I'm currently making 1000whp on pump e85. This is my second GT500 my first one I ran a 2.4,2.6,2.75 pulley always had issues with belt slip/belt dust unless you are looking to go 1100whp or up I would look into 2.7 clutched pulley. If you really want big power I would consider going with the Whipple. I also used the Whipple tensioner, spe auxiliary tensioner on the first build.
 
#8 ·
The SC and all supporting mods should be done at the same time. The rails and plugs are easier to get to when the SC is off. 2.5 seems a bit aggressive for street use but I could be wrong. Headers can be done with or without the other mods.
If you’re going for high Hp on E85 you might be better off with a whipple. Considering what you pay for the SC porting, brick, water manifold, throttle body, rails, pulley, intake, etc, you aren’t too far off from the cost of a whipple.
 
#12 ·
So I'm fixing to start upgrading my 21 and I have a list of mods I want to do to it. I would like to get some feedback on what I need now vs what can wait to be bought and installed later. I've been reading and it appears that the fuel rails could be added later, and the Gforce axles upgraded later. Anything else I'm missing or other suggestions?

Stainless Works headers2" x 3" headers
Lethal Performance resonator deleteH-Pipe delete
Nitto (front 305/35R20)NT555 G2
Nitto (rear, 315/35R20)NT555 RII
Kong 108mm Throttle Body108 Billet
Injector DynamicsID1300x
NKG Iridium IXLTR7IX-11
Palm Beach MotorsportHeat Exchanger
Whipple Superchargers1" - 1" Intercooler
SPEIC Manifold - Whipple
SPEThermostat
LP Griptec2.5" Pulley Kit
Gates 8 Rib HD BeltK080670HD
SPEFuel Rail Kit
Whipple SuperchargersBelt Tensironer
Jokerz PerformanceSC porting
Gforce PerformanceFOR10115A Axles
SPEVertical Links
KelltracIRS Subframe Posi-Loc
Palm Beach MotorsportTuning
When you go to these depths you might even consider a 3.8 whipple - fuel rails are included will make 900whp+ on 93 and 1000whp+ on E85 with the biggest pulley (lowest boost)
 
#13 ·
Lots of good advice here. after reading some, If one day I decide to seriously modify the Mistress, I know who to ask.

Greg's advice is very sound also, as its so easy to screw up a good thing, I can't use the full 760+ Hp I have now, even when I go to the Track :ROFLMAO:

Good luck on however you decide to go.
 
#16 ·
Seems like a big nothing burger. Rob left PBD and went to work with another shop. PBD still has tuners. Facebook had all the same rumors and conjecture. I talked to Mike at PBD about it, and he says there’s no story to tell, Rob decided to move on.
 
#18 ·
For those running the Whipple. Is it worth it to have the race port done? Does it make that big of a difference? Also, what about dropping down to a 3.75 pulley for a lb more of boost?
 
#30 ·
Lots of good info here, Thank you John and others, I may do a 900whp build down the road I can't get e85, so 900 is it.

But 900whp is plenty for what I want to do, I am thinking getting the 3.8 Whipple is the easiest route for me here, I have limited shops to go to.
 
#37 ·
If you're going to port a Whipple, you really should be planning on installing a built short block.
If he ports and keeps it turned down (for now) to lets say 900-950 hp / >815 TQ, I do not see a need to build a small block.
Most folks port to get to the 1300HP mark, I'm saying in this case, port and keep the tune modest for engine longevity, not to gain huge HP.
Then later when 900-950 is not enough, he builds a block.
With all of this said, the stock GT500 is damn near perfect IMO.
 
#32 ·
Ken's youtube video of his whipple car install STARTS on the 3.7 upper pulley & E85 he then steps down to a 3.5 upper pulley & E85.
(He doesn't start on a 3.8 upper as I did)

-He at no point shows us a 93 tune on the whipple at least with his car.. but here are those dyno figures...

-Very similar to my 3.8 whipple (I don't have cats & it was a cooler day) I made in the middle of his numbers on the 3.8 upper alone.

KENS:
3.75 upper / E85
3.5 upper / E85

NO WHERE NEAR 800rwtq which I do agree with stay under unless you're digging into the DCT

Font Rectangle Parallel Electrical wiring Wire
 
#33 ·
Ken's youtube video of his whipple car install STARTS on the 3.7 upper pulley & E85 he then steps down to a 3.5 upper pulley & E85.
(He doesn't start on a 3.8 upper as I did)

-He at no point shows us a 93 tune on the whipple at least with his car.. but here are those dyno figures...

-Very similar to my 3.8 whipple (I don't have cats & it was a cooler day) I made in the middle of his numbers on the 3.8 upper alone.

KENS:
3.75 upper / E85
3.5 upper / E85

NO WHERE NEAR 800rwtq which I do agree with stay under unless you're digging into the DCT

View attachment 273218
Yeah I went back and was watching his videos again. I think to hit the 1100rwhp I'm going to have to step down to a 3.25 pulley. When he went to the 3.0 pulley he made over 1260rwhp and over 860lb ft of torque but to try to keep the torq down I think the 3.25 pulley will be the one to go with.

I would be interested to know on the 3.25 pulley what one could make on 93.
 
#39 ·
Ken from PBD got back to me on the tq. His response "Yes but we can control that via the tune. 900tq seems to be the sweet spot. we have gone higher but that is when you will see the clutches slip."
 
#43 ·
Ported allows you to spin a larger pully as compared to stock blower needing the smaller pully to achieve the same HP numbers with less torque.
As I stated earlier, the DCT will hold a lot more than 800TQ. The 800-850 torque number is what should be watched for motor life not DCT.
The DCT will hold above 900. The DCT stage 1 upgrade will hold at 1100TQ and still act/feel like OEM (cost $5,000).
Heck, get a Hellion TT kit, a built motor, a SSP performance DCT stage 1 upgrade, GForce FOR10115A Outlaw Half Shaft Axles and don't look back. 🤣
 
#44 ·
As I stated earlier, the DCT will hold a lot more than 800TQ. The 800-850 torque number is what should be watched for motor life not DCT.
I hear what you’re saying but Ken Bjonnes and Sam Lipencott have both publicly stated that the limiting factor for torque is the DCT.
 
#46 ·
Made some changes after viewing some videos from Ken at PBD. Went ahead and decided to port the Whipple. Planning to run a 3.75 pulley for 93 tune and a 3.0 pulley for e85. Tuning will be done by Ken.

Has anyone swapped pulleys on their cars themselves? Whipple claims it’s a 3 minute job but can’t seem to verify that.
 
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#51 ·
Well I found out today if I want to run the 3.0 pulley I’m going to have to swap belts every time. Stock pulley and 3.75 use the same belt but to go to a 3.0 takes a new belt. 🙄🙄
 
#59 ·
After some back and fourth this morning with PBD, I think I’m going to stick with the ported whipple setup. The TT was going to be another $10k before install over that of the whipple.

Going to go with a 3.65 pulley for 93 tune and step down to a 3.5 for e85 tune. The e85 with the ported blower should get my close if not just over the 1100rwhp mark. Luckily they both use the same belt so a simple pulley swap will be as easy as taking out the 5 bolts.

Anyone happen to know what the drivetrain % loss is on these cars? So say if you make 1100rwhp what’s the HP at the crank?
 
#60 ·
After some back and fourth this morning with PBD, I think I’m going to stick with the ported whipple setup. The TT was going to be another $10k before install over that of the whipple.

Going to go with a 3.65 pulley for 93 tune and step down to a 3.5 for e85 tune. The e85 with the ported blower should get my close if not just over the 1100rwhp mark. Luckily they both use the same belt so a simple pulley swap will be as easy as taking out the 5 bolts.

Anyone happen to know what the drivetrain % loss is on these cars? So say if you make 1100rwhp what’s the HP at the crank?
To make 1100 whp i would guess you need 1170-1200 at the crank …..
 
#65 ·
Placed the order for the whipple today through PBD. I can’t say enough about those guys, and Mike who I was working with. He went out of his way to get the sale. Now comes the hurry and wait part lol.
 
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#66 ·
Ok guys. Let’s talk about octane booster. So PBD recommends no lower than 3.65 for a 93 tune. I’m assuming anything lower and there is too much boost for the fuel. So what about using something like Boostane or Torco to up the octane? Could I go with a smaller pulley like 3.375 and then run 3.25 for e85. Both use the same belt so no belt swapping.
 
#67 ·
I’ve always been cautioned about using octane booster besides in an emergency like a gas station only having 87 when you have 5 miles to empty. I have an emergency bottle in the trunk for that exact reason only. I wouldn’t use it long term though. YMMV it’s probably a bomb subject 🤣
 
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#68 ·
I'm curious with the 3.65 how much timing they are pulling to keep it safe on 93 that's likely 19ish+ pounds of boost in the upper rpms.

What's torco net octane with 10-12 gallons of 93? I'm not even sure.... The last time I dumped a bottle of torco into a car was back in 2004-2005 on a 04' Cobra. And I'm pretty sure I wasn't making anywhere near 19lbs of boost.
 
#69 ·
I'm curious with the 3.65 how much timing they are pulling to keep it safe on 93 that's likely 19ish+ pounds of boost in the upper rpms.

What's torco net octane with 10-12 gallons of 93? I'm not even sure.... The last time I dumped a bottle of torco into a car was back in 2004-2005 on a 04' Cobra. And I'm pretty sure I wasn't making anywhere near 19lbs of boost.
sorry for the late reply. Here is the info that Torco has posted.


I’ve got a call with Ken Monday to ask about this or mixing something like MS109 with 93.

Also found this chart for the Whipple 3.8 pulley boost sizes.

 
#70 ·
Spoke to Ken just a few minutes ago and asked a few questions.

1. His take on octane booster like Torco is its ok every now and then, but if you want high octane buy it from a reputable dealer like VP Fuels, etc.

2. He agreed that 3.65 would be the lowest pulley he would go on 93. He has tuned cars with a Whipple and that size pulley, should net low 900's with it. He said with the lower compression of these cars help with getting as much out of them as possible. He also mentioned that it being ported will help with efficiency.

3. Asked about ditching the Whipple for a TT setup. He said that while you can make more power on the TT setup, they are 10x harder to install and so much has to be switched to make it happen. If you're looking to break records with high HP, then TT would be the way to go.

Currently researching high octane gases, but most likely will stick with 93 since its readily available here.
 
#71 · (Edited)
Spoke to Ken just a few minutes ago and asked a few questions.

1. His take on octane booster like Torco is its ok every now and then, but if you want high octane buy it from a reputable dealer like VP Fuels, etc.

2. He agreed that 3.65 would be the lowest pulley he would go on 93. He has tuned cars with a Whipple and that size pulley, should net low 900's with it. He said with the lower compression of these cars help with getting as much out of them as possible. He also mentioned that it being ported will help with efficiency.

3. Asked about ditching the Whipple for a TT setup. He said that while you can make more power on the TT setup, they are 10x harder to install and so much has to be switched to make it happen. If you're looking to break records with high HP, then TT would be the way to go.

Currently researching high octane gases, but most likely will stick with 93 since its readily available here.
VP is mucho dinero (but good stuff). You are lucky to have 93, around here it is 91.
I was once told that a ported Whipple was only good for bragging rights. Go figure.
 
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