Need Upgrade Help Advice (pulley, port, intake, tune injectors, headers)

2592 Views 79 Replies 15 Participants Last post by Baloney Pony, 10 d ago

Blue Not Black

Discussion Starter · 1 mo ago

So I'm fixing to start upgrading my 21 and I have a list of mods I want to do to it. I would like to get some feedback on what I need now vs what can wait to be bought and installed later. I've been reading and it appears that the fuel rails could be added later, and the Gforce axles upgraded later. Anything else I'm missing or other suggestions?

Stainless Works headers	2" x 3" headers
Lethal Performance resonator delete	H-Pipe delete
Nitto (front 305/35R20)	NT555 G2
Nitto (rear, 315/35R20)	NT555 RII
Kong 108mm Throttle Body	108 Billet
Injector Dynamics	ID1300x
NKG Iridium IX	LTR7IX-11
Palm Beach Motorsport	Heat Exchanger
Whipple Superchargers	1" - 1" Intercooler
SPE	IC Manifold - Whipple
SPE	Thermostat
LP Griptec	2.5" Pulley Kit
Gates 8 Rib HD Belt	K080670HD
SPE	Fuel Rail Kit
Whipple Superchargers	Belt Tensironer
Jokerz Performance	SC porting
Gforce Performance	FOR10115A Axles
SPE	Vertical Links
Kelltrac	IRS Subframe Posi-Loc
Palm Beach Motorsport	Tuning

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Evolvd

· #21 · 1 mo ago

MOT26 said:
Ported will make more top end and slightly less low end but enough to make a difference in durability in the long run. Ported will give you more HP while making less torque, torque is the engine killer in high HP cars. You want to keep the torque around 800-850 with the 3.8 (lower than 800 is even better) to give the motor more durability.

It’s not the motor that has issue with torque, it’s the DCT. Unless you upgrade the clutch packs that is why you’d need to keep torque below 800.

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GT500 The Mistress

· #22 · 1 mo ago

Evolvd said:
It’s not the motor that has issue with torque, it’s the DCT. Unless you upgrade the clutch packs that is why you’d need to keep torque below 800.

Very true, I read a very good article about Our DCT transmission its very durable up to 800 to 850, above that its very important to upgrade the Clutch packs, I think a few other parts too.

I honestly can't remember where I read it though, it was over a year ago.

Brian have you done any serious mods to your Engine/DCT? I am just curious

Evolvd

· #23 · 1 mo ago

GT500 The Mistress said:
Very true, I read a very good article about Our DCT transmission its very durable up to 800 to 850, above that its very important to upgrade the Clutch packs, I think a few other parts too.

I honestly can't remember where I read it though, it was over a year ago.

Brian have you done any serious mods to your Engine/DCT? I am just curious

Mods are happening next month, but I won’t be pushing that much torque so DCT is staying stock.

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GT500 The Mistress

· #24 · 1 mo ago

Evolvd said:
Mods are happening next month, but I won’t be pushing that much torque so DCT is staying stock.

Please post a build thread with pictures Brian, you know we love pictures here

Reactions: 1

MOT26

· #25 · 1 mo ago

Evolvd said:
It’s not the motor that has issue with torque, it’s the DCT. Unless you upgrade the clutch packs that is why you’d need to keep torque below 800.

I'm sticking with high torque on a blower car is no bueno. The ported 3.8 will give you higher HP with less torque as compared to a non ported 3.8 blower (same HP will have higher torque).
I'm sure that Ken has talked about his 800 torque number while tuning blower GT500s. He will go higher on turbo cars.
I helped 2 people install 3.8's with over 1100HP/ and over 850 foot pounds of torque, and both were/are on stock DCT's.
The DCT will hold more than 800HP and more than 800 foot pound of torque, heck a GT500 (1300HP) with stock engine and DCT has ran 8's.
Ideally, I would not want to run high torque with the stock DCT. I will for sure upgrade mine along with axles.
But I'm no expert.

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Blue Not Black

Discussion Starter · #26 · 1 mo ago

MOT26 said:
I'm sticking with high torque on a blower car is no bueno. The ported 3.8 will give you higher HP with less torque as compared to a non ported 3.8 blower (same HP will have higher torque).
I'm sure that Ken has talked about his 800 torque number while tuning blower GT500s. He will go higher on turbo cars.
I helped 2 people install 3.8's with over 1100HP/ and over 850 foot pounds of torque, and both were/are on stock DCT's.
The DCT will hold more than 800HP and more than 800 foot pound of torque, heck a GT500 (1300HP) with stock engine and DCT has ran 8's.
Ideally, I would not want to run high torque with the stock DCT. I will for sure upgrade mine along with axles.
But I'm no expert.

I spoke to Ken at PBD this morning and asked a few questions. He recommended non porting of the Whipple and with ID1300 injectors and a fuel system to support it then 900+rwhp for 93 and 1100+rwhp on e85. That’s with the stock 3.825 pulley. I didn’t get a chance to ask what power it would make on say a 3.75 pulley.

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MOT26

· #27 · 1 mo ago

Blue Not Black said:
I spoke to Ken at PBD this morning and asked a few questions. He recommended non porting of the Whipple and with ID1300 injectors and a fuel system to support it then 900+rwhp for 93 and 1100+rwhp on e85. That’s with the stock 3.825 pulley. I didn’t get a chance to ask what power it would make on say a 3.75 pulley.

Did he give you the torque numbers for each tune?

Blue Not Black

Discussion Starter · #28 · 1 mo ago

MOT26 said:
Did he give you the torque numbers for each tune?

I forgot to asked but I sent him an email asking so hope to hear back on it.

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MOT26

· #29 · 1 mo ago

Blue Not Black said:
I forgot to asked but I sent him an email asking so hope to hear back on it.

If it were me I would go ported. It might take a couple of weeks for one to come in but it would be worth it. I almost pulled the trigger on a ported Whipple but decided to go twin turbo instead.
Either way you cannot go wrong. You should ask him about the limitations on the motor and DCT (ask for numbers). That way you hear it from an expert.

This is a portion of an email from PBD a year ago:
"Fuel system we recommend Fore Innovations triple pump and ID1300 injectors, yes the ported will make more top end and slightly less low end but enough to make a difference in durability in the long run."

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GT500 The Mistress

· #30 · 1 mo ago

Lots of good info here, Thank you John and others, I may do a 900whp build down the road I can't get e85, so 900 is it.

But 900whp is plenty for what I want to do, I am thinking getting the 3.8 Whipple is the easiest route for me here, I have limited shops to go to.

Catmonkey

· #31 · 1 mo ago (Edited)

If you're going to port a Whipple, you really should be planning on building the bottom end.

Reactions: 3

GT500info

· #32 · 1 mo ago

Ken's youtube video of his whipple car install STARTS on the 3.7 upper pulley & E85 he then steps down to a 3.5 upper pulley & E85.
(He doesn't start on a 3.8 upper as I did)

-He at no point shows us a 93 tune on the whipple at least with his car.. but here are those dyno figures...

-Very similar to my 3.8 whipple (I don't have cats & it was a cooler day) I made in the middle of his numbers on the 3.8 upper alone.

KENS:
3.75 upper / E85
3.5 upper / E85

NO WHERE NEAR 800rwtq which I do agree with stay under unless you're digging into the DCT

Font Rectangle Parallel Electrical wiring Wire

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Blue Not Black

Discussion Starter · #33 · 1 mo ago

GT500info said:
Ken's youtube video of his whipple car install STARTS on the 3.7 upper pulley & E85 he then steps down to a 3.5 upper pulley & E85.
(He doesn't start on a 3.8 upper as I did)

-He at no point shows us a 93 tune on the whipple at least with his car.. but here are those dyno figures...

-Very similar to my 3.8 whipple (I don't have cats & it was a cooler day) I made in the middle of his numbers on the 3.8 upper alone.

KENS:
3.75 upper / E85
3.5 upper / E85

NO WHERE NEAR 800rwtq which I do agree with stay under unless you're digging into the DCT

View attachment 273218

Yeah I went back and was watching his videos again. I think to hit the 1100rwhp I'm going to have to step down to a 3.25 pulley. When he went to the 3.0 pulley he made over 1260rwhp and over 860lb ft of torque but to try to keep the torq down I think the 3.25 pulley will be the one to go with.

I would be interested to know on the 3.25 pulley what one could make on 93.

Blue Not Black

Discussion Starter · #34 · 1 mo ago

Here is the comparison of the 3.5, 3.25, and 3.0 pulley with numbers.

Slope Gesture Line Rectangle Font

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Evolvd

· #35 · 1 mo ago

Blue Not Black said:
Yeah I went back and was watching his videos again. I think to hit the 1100rwhp I'm going to have to step down to a 3.25 pulley. When he went to the 3.0 pulley he made over 1260rwhp and over 860lb ft of torque but to try to keep the torq down I think the 3.25 pulley will be the one to go with.

I would be interested to know on the 3.25 pulley what one could make on 93.

Are you doing a fuel system upgrade? Sorry if I missed that info. From what I’ve seen it would seem you could safely assume a 150-175 difference in power between 93 and E85.

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Blue Not Black

Discussion Starter · #36 · 1 mo ago

Evolvd said:
Are you doing a fuel system upgrade? Sorry if I missed that info. From what I’ve seen it would seem you could safely assume a 150-175 difference in power between 93 and E85.

Yes, a 3 pump return fuel style system.

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MOT26

· #37 · 1 mo ago

Catmonkey said:
If you're going to port a Whipple, you really should be planning on installing a built short block.

If he ports and keeps it turned down (for now) to lets say 900-950 hp / >815 TQ, I do not see a need to build a small block.
Most folks port to get to the 1300HP mark, I'm saying in this case, port and keep the tune modest for engine longevity, not to gain huge HP.
Then later when 900-950 is not enough, he builds a block.
With all of this said, the stock GT500 is damn near perfect IMO.

Catmonkey

· #38 · 1 mo ago

MOT26 said:
If he ports and keeps it turned down (for now) to lets say 900-950 hp / >815 TQ, I do not see a need to build a small block.
Most folks port to get to the 1300HP mark, I'm saying in this case, port and keep the tune modest for engine longevity, not to gain huge HP.
Then later when 900-950 is not enough, he builds a block.
With all of this said, the stock GT500 is damn near perfect IMO.

Then you don't need the port, other than bragging rights.

Blue Not Black

Discussion Starter · #39 · 1 mo ago

Ken from PBD got back to me on the tq. His response "Yes but we can control that via the tune. 900tq seems to be the sweet spot. we have gone higher but that is when you will see the clutches slip."

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GT500info

· #40 · 1 mo ago

Blue Not Black said:
Yeah I went back and was watching his videos again. I think to hit the 1100rwhp I'm going to have to step down to a 3.25 pulley. When he went to the 3.0 pulley he made over 1260rwhp and over 860lb ft of torque but to try to keep the torq down I think the 3.25 pulley will be the one to go with.

I would be interested to know on the 3.25 pulley what one could make on 93.

There's zero room for 93 octane + a 3.25 pulley, you're talking 20lbs or so of boost far surpassing the detonation limits of 93 octane. A 3.7 upper is doable on pump gas and a slight, slight possibly of a 3.6 upper pulley. I'd say the vast majority of tuners are going to shy away from anything +17lbs of boost on 93 pump gas. Engine WILL go BOOM. Pump gas 3.8 upper pulley = yes, 3.7 upper pulley = yes smaller and your crossing into dangerous waters.

For reference: 3.8 upper I'm at 16lbs of boost @ 8000k redline / no cats = less restriction / backpressure = less overall boost. Cats might pump up the boost by 1lb or so with the restriction in the exhaust.

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