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Traditionalist Crowd = Ford Customers



Yes, this has been the Moto at Ford for some time. Didn't work out that great for the Lincoln Continental did it?
The Continental would have tanked even with a V8. And the additional cost that Ford would have had to incur to include a V8 in the lineup would have made the the balance sheet on that car bleed even worse. V8 power had nothing to do with Ford's whiff on the Continental. And currently, with high-end German Luxury Sedans, the overwhelming majority that Mercedes, BMW and Audi sell are their turbo-V6 offerings. The V8's, in comparison, are the minority.

And meanwhile, all of 'em are losing market-share to Tesla hand over fist.

Your grasp of modern-day demographics and market-trends lives in a cave, and hunts with a big stick.

You've always seemed to tout how "smart" GM is with its big V8's and all.. Over the past 8 years, GM has been in a steady decline, and Ford has been on a steady climb in gross revenues. Ford passed-up GM in 2015, and hasn't looked back. They must not know what they're doing.
 

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Traditionalist Crowd = Ford Customers

Yes, this has been the Moto at Ford for some time. Didn't work out that great for the Lincoln Continental did it?
So Ford should make bad financial decisions based on a small fraction of their customer base? You're delusional.


The Continental would have tanked even with a V8. And the additional cost that Ford would have had to incur to include a V8 in the lineup would have made the the balance sheet on that car bleed even worse. V8 power had nothing to do with Ford's whiff on the Continental. And currently, with high-end German Luxury Sedans, the overwhelming majority that Mercedes, BMW and Audi sell are their turbo-V6 offerings. The V8's, in comparison, are the minority.

And meanwhile, all of 'em are losing market-share to Tesla hand over fist.

Your grasp of modern-day demographics and market-trends lives in a cave, and hunts with a big stick.

You've always seemed to tout how "smart" GM is with its big V8's and all.. Over the past 8 years, GM has been in a steady decline, and Ford has been on a steady climb in gross revenues. Ford passed-up GM in 2015, and hasn't looked back. They must not know what they're doing.
I had to go look. Here's graphical reference for those of us that like pictures. 2020 is going to leave a mark for a while...

Ford:
208028


GM:
208029
 

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Is that US sales or Global? I think I was looking at Global. Any way you slice it though... ;)
 

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So Ford should make bad financial decisions based on a small fraction of their customer base? You're delusional.
So giving customers choice is Ford making bad financial decisions? Also as a past Ford customer Im a delusional cave man according to members on this forum.
 

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So giving customers choice is Ford making bad financial decisions? Also as a past Ford customer Im a delusional cave man according to members on this forum.
After all the explanations and examples given (I may be an amateur but others are directly tied to the industry), you continue to speak negatively on every aspect of business execution, technology, and product offering. You're living and throwing stones in your own glass house, so I'd suggest you grab your drink of choice and kick back by yourself. If you're lucky, you may find a select few to come visit.
 
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I know some people who hate vegetables... Just HATE them.. And they're certain they represent a significant portion of the dining public, because they can't imagine why anyone would ever want to eat a vegetable, and can't imagine anyone who wouldn't want steak morning noon and night. Horizon-expanding is never an option.
 
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I don't care and far from offended by the name. They could call it a Maverick or Pinto for all I care. I was completely against electric cars not that many years ago. I have since hopped on the technology bandwagon, I guess. I'm not in line for one but I could be in the market for a full ev pickup when I get ready to replace my 2019 Ram 1500 Limited. But anyway, I'm not put off by the Mustang Mach-E name.
 

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I have grown accustom to your crazy replies and simply give you a pass... much like when talking someone that has special needs... you are “special.”

It will all boil down to sales and me thinks this will be a winner for Ford. I think my wife would seriously dig this and I might enjoy stealing it now and then.

special is not exactly the first thing that comes to mind with me, but hey, it is better than what I am thinking right now😮
 

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I don't care and far from offended by the name. They could call it a Maverick or Pinto for all I care. I was completely against electric cars not that many years ago. I have since hopped on the technology bandwagon, I guess. I'm not in line for one but I could be in the market for a full ev pickup when I get ready to replace my 2019 Ram 1500 Limited. But anyway, I'm not put off by the Mustang Mach-E name.
Yep, when the first Teslas started to show up around town, and news of their drag strip "prowess" started creeping around the interweb, I wrinkled my nose and said "ehhh, not for me". But at the same time, I also didn't throw a tantrum and start calling them shit-boxes and stupid either. I could readily see that there was a tsunami on the horizon, and I started paying more attention to that tech, and noticing more and more people silently cruising around my town in their EV's.

I also thought that I'd never want a vehicle with a "virtual" dash cluster. Well, I've been driving one for the last year and a half now, and I actually love it. So much you can do with it. My wife's Audi is the same way, full techno-crazy video-screen touch-screen everything.

Tech is moving FAST...

A friend of my father's (who passed away earlier this year) let me drive his brand-new Tesla Model S.. It was the fastest/biggest-battery version you could option. Actually, he had 5 Teslas, spread between three locations LOL.. It was pretty surreal how hard that thing hit at full-tilt, and immediately I "got it". Still, I like my gas-chugger, but I get it.

And the irony of the thing is, the guy was an enormous classic car nut, a very heavy-hitting collector. At one time (before he began simplifying his life due to health issues) he had over 80 classics in his collection, mostly 50's and 60's convertibles, muscle cars and land-yachts, all meticulously restored and maintained.

Proof that even your most dyed in the wool old-school classic car enthusiast, was also super-fascinated with electric power and big honking touch screens containing endless amounts of features and tech. He easily dropped an oar in both ponds.
 

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I think as a Ford fan its a big mistake to compare this thing to a Tesla. The Tesla drives itself. The Ford has a graphic that goes from yellow to red when you are too close to someone LOL. The Tesla doesn't look like a Buick and a Mazda had an ugly baby. If looking for a soulless machine, this Fakestang would be at the bottom of my list.

On an unrelated note - as most of this thread is haha, I own an electric forklift. I bought it for use in a small, not very well ventilated shop. After 7 years of owning it I can tell you the problems with electric vehicles. It has had to be maintained 10x more than any propane machines Ive ever known of. And expensive maintenance! Also parts are becoming obsolete due to technology advancement. Constant battery and charger issues, with the biggest problem being after 7 years the lift now has a maximum charge of 30% capacity from new. Ive lost 70% operating time capability over 7 years.

In the end I should have went with the propane unit. Its initial price would have been less expensive. The maintenance would have been thousands of dollars less expensive and best of all it would have the same runtime as new. Could you imagine after 7 years of ownership you're Mustang went from 15 to 3mpg! LOL. Some people are not going to imagine that reality, they are going to buy it!
 

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I think as a Ford fan its a big mistake to compare this thing a Tesla. The Tesla drives itself. The Ford has a graphic that goes from yellow to red when you are too close to someone LOL.
Nothing you have ever said here has led me to the conclusion that you are a Ford fan.

One could argue that Tesla’s autopilot was released to the masses prematurely. Unnecessary deaths have occurred because of this. Ford is taking a more measured approach. From my understanding, the Mach-E is capable of autonomous driving, but it is not yet released. It will be available at a later date via over the air update.
 

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I think as a Ford fan its a big mistake to compare this thing to a Tesla. The Tesla drives itself. The Ford has a graphic that goes from yellow to red when you are too close to someone LOL. The Tesla doesn't look like a Buick and a Mazda had an ugly baby. If looking for a soulless machine, this Fakestang would be at the bottom of my list.

On an unrelated note - as most of this thread is haha, I own an electric forklift. I bought it for use in a small, not very well ventilated shop. After 7 years of owning it I can tell you the problems with electric vehicles. It has had to be maintained 10x more than any propane machines Ive ever known of. And expensive maintenance! Also parts are becoming obsolete due to technology advancement. Constant battery and charger issues, with the biggest problem being after 7 years the lift now has a maximum charge of 30% capacity from new. Ive lost 70% operating time capability over 7 years.

In the end I should have went with the propane unit. Its initial price would have been less expensive. The maintenance would have been thousands of dollars less expensive and best of all it would have the same runtime as new. Could you imagine after 7 years of ownership you're Mustang went from 15 to 3mpg! LOL. Some people are not going to imagine that reality, they are going to buy it!
1. As loose and sloppy as you run with styling comparisons (there's nothing in the Buick lineup that begins to resemble the Mach E), you could argue that all SUV's look alike, all pony cars look alike, and all sedans look alike. Because that's how "basic" your eye is.

2. Another friend in the car hobby, went to dinner in Michigan with a Tesla owner. They exited the restaurant, and the Tesla owner thought he'd impress his friend by using the feature where the Tesla auto-pilots itself out of the parking space, through the parking lot, and would pick them up at the front door of the restaurant where he was holding the key fob (which is how the car would track them down). The car backed out of its space, started heading towards the front of the restaurant, and then turned left, pulled out onto the 6-lane road that the restaurant fronted, and began pacing up and down that road, "lost", as my friend and several other restaurant goers laughed so hard they almost lost their dinner. I think there's a bit more R&D needed before you can brag on Tesla's autopilot, or be willing to try it yourself as a passenger.

3. Your forklift compared to modern EV technology is like comparing a Briggs & Stratton weed-whacker to a GE9X jet engine. I can't believe you even went there. Next thing you're going to be talking about how flashlights are always dead when you need them. Battery degradation is a science unto itself, and correlates with the type/design/tech of the battery. There is zero relationship to your fork lift.

4. You suggest that Tesla Styling has the Mach E beat hands-down. I have a good friend, female, with a Tesla Y on order. She texted me a couple weeks ago, knowing that I'm a Mustang guy "hey, why didn't you ever say anything to me about those Mustang Mach E's?? I just saw one online, and had I known earlier, THAT'S what I would have ordered!!" That's my most direct example of public reaction to the Mach E, but I've heard plenty of other people who are geeked as hell to own one. I think the big edge Tesla currently has is their charging infrastructure.
 

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On an unrelated note - as most of this thread is haha, I own an electric forklift. I bought it for use in a small, not very well ventilated shop. After 7 years of owning it I can tell you the problems with electric vehicles. It has had to be maintained 10x more than any propane machines Ive ever known of. And expensive maintenance! Also parts are becoming obsolete due to technology advancement. Constant battery and charger issues, with the biggest problem being after 7 years the lift now has a maximum charge of 30% capacity from new. Ive lost 70% operating time capability over 7 years.

In the end I should have went with the propane unit. Its initial price would have been less expensive. The maintenance would have been thousands of dollars less expensive and best of all it would have the same runtime as new. Could you imagine after 7 years of ownership you're Mustang went from 15 to 3mpg! LOL. Some people are not going to imagine that reality, they are going to buy it!
Ok, I'll play. I work in the space industry. We have been using lots of different battery types for years. I seriously doubt the chemistry of your forklift battery is anywhere close to the car batteries. I've been using Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (Tesla's new cells in China) for 12 years now. They have degraded about 5% and there's no maintenance. Tech is changing fast and battery tech is about to break wide open. Educating the public on the best way to charge and discharge the batteries is going to be the biggest challenge (RTFM), but most manufacturers are smart enough not to allow the cells to ever fully charge or discharge. ie, 100% charge is only about 90% of the batteries capacity. This eliminates the general public from hurting the batteries. This is also how Tesla has added range to old vehicles, by dipping into their reserve. I love our cars and the classics, but tech is cool too, and these new cars coming are way will blow the doors off anything from the past.
 

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Lots of reports on battery degradation in electric cars and other electric machines including Teslas. Also temperatures severely effect battery efficiency. Cold weather is no bueno for batteries of all types. If people want to ignore the facts of battery degradation its up to them, but like the poster above mentioned, a well informed public is the best case.
 

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Lots of reports on battery degradation in electric cars and other electric machines including Teslas. Also temperatures severely effect battery efficiency. Cold weather is no bueno for batteries of all types. If people want to ignore the facts of battery degradation its up to them, but like the poster above mentioned, a well informed public is the best case.
My father's aforementioned late friend kept two of his Teslas at a high-altitude estate in the mountains of Montana. Cold as hell. No worries. They've got it worked out.
 

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So was this his everyday driving machine or a toy?
Everyday.... That's why he owned so many. It's all he drove, no matter what residence or apartment he was at. At least once per-year he'd drive 750 miles from his place in Montana to my dad's summer house in Ouray CO. And likewise, once per year he'd make the journey up from Miami to Ocala to visit my dad.

He drove Teslas everywhere, year-round.
 

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Everyday.... That's why he owned so many. It's all he drove, no matter what residence or apartment he was at. At least once per-year he'd drive 750 miles from his place in Montana to my dad's summer house in Ouray CO. And likewise, once per year he'd make the journey up from Miami to Ocala to visit my dad.

He drove Teslas everywhere, year-round.
lol, sounds like an average Joe. Electric vehicles are great if you have 10 of them and just drive the ones that have a charge or are not broken. Maybe Ill get 10 electric forklifts so I won't have to worry when mine breaks down Ill have another 9 that have some life left in them.
 
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