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Sales figures will tell the tale (or tail...LOL)
Exactly this.

I think as much as some people may be offended at the naming convention, they won't be offended enough to NOT buy their next Mustang (car) if they really want one.
 
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As a student of automotive design, and a collector/aficionado of design ranging from the 1900's to present-day, I truly do my best to step out of my "comfort zone", and appreciate what designers and engineers are trying to create that is NEW, and not just re-worked already-done lazy and obvious stuff. Having been to plenty of seminars with head designers from major automakers speaking, they admire and draw from the past, but also hunger for pushing the envelope moving forward, and creating and re-inventing. The biggest change in design that we've yet to see, is the fact that with no internal combustion engine, and electric motors at all four wheels, traditional "hood, passenger compartment, trunk" packaging is no longer a necessity. The layout of the modern car may shift dramatically. It's yet to happen, they're still holding back.

Anyhow, I think I might own more old/antiquated/classic stuff than most. I'm definitely living in the past on a daily basis LOL. And it's beautiful.

But I also have a huge thirst and appreciation for designs that are moving forward. And always appreciate when they sprinkle in some nods to the past, without making it look hokey. I think the Mach E accomplishes that.

They are going to sell friggin' awesome. Current Mustang sales reflects the fact that the general public just isn't buying 2-door anything anymore. Period. We're beyond lucky that Ford has continued to keep the traditional Mustang around.

The Mach E is going to be a hot seller. That's my prediction. If Henry Ford had listened to "enthusiasts" when designing the Model T, the entire concept of the car would've been screwed... It's about selling cars first. And if you sell enough cars, and make enough money, then and only then can you dabble with the fun stuff.
 

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The Mach E looks worse than the entire line up of new Buicks. How well are they selling? Maybe Buick should start calling their cars Mustangs, might be able to sell them then?

Hokey? I think the huge tablet glued to the center dash is the definition of hokey.

207980
 

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The Mach E looks worse than the entire line up of new Buicks. How well are they selling? Maybe Buick should start calling their cars Mustangs, might be able to sell them then?

Hokey? I think the huge tablet glued to the center dash is the definition of hokey.

View attachment 207980
History will, and always has, proven you wrong...

Not a single one of your "forecasts" has ever come true on this forum. You're batting 0.000

And if you really think the Mach E resembles the latest Buicks, well then, that also explains the sentence above.. I suppose that they do share 4 wheels and 2 headlights.
 

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History will, and always has, proven you wrong...

Not a single one of your "forecasts" has ever come true on this forum. You're batting 0.000

And if you really think the Mach E resembles the latest Buicks, well then, that also explains the sentence above.. I suppose that they do share 4 wheels and 2 headlights.
History will, and always has, proven you wrong...

Not a single one of your "forecasts" has ever come true on this forum. You're batting 0.000

And if you really think the Mach E resembles the latest Buicks, well then, that also explains the sentence above.. I suppose that they do share 4 wheels and 2 headlights.
Sure. Time will tell. Actually the Buick is much better looking.

207981

207982
 

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Tesla Model 3s aren't exactly pretty and they're selling pretty well...and I think Ford will crush them with the Mach E. As more affordable EVs come out, I think Tesla is in trouble. VW is coming with their stuff, it's definitely going to be an interesting future.
 
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The Mach E looks worse than the entire line up of new Buicks. How well are they selling? Maybe Buick should start calling their cars Mustangs, might be able to sell them then?

Hokey? I think the huge tablet glued to the center dash is the definition of hokey.
The screen looks terrible, but it seems to be function over form. People who buy the EVs like a gigantic screen "of the future" and, as bad as it looks, trying to incorporate it into a dash will probably be an even bigger fail. Tesla tried it. It worked for them. So Ford isn't reinventing that wheel.
 
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Watched the video. Absolutely nothing impressed me about any of those features. The whole time watching I was thinking what the resale of this vehicle will be after 5 years and also how my 2 year old iPhone only lasts until noon before I need to plug it in but when it was new I could go all day without charging it. Imagine a car that gets 18mpg but after 5 years gets 6mpg. Seems like a great investment to me!
 

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Actually the Buick is much better looking.
I suppose you're right... If you're a middle aged woman picking your kid up from a soccer game, with witty decals in the rear window depicting your family. If that's the case, that Buick looks the part.

As for the giant screen, car interiors are morphing more and more to resemble personal office spaces. Mercedes is also going in a similar direction, making the touch screen all inclusive and prominent.

The 2021 Audi SQ8 I just bought my wife (it's a sinister sumbitch, probably would beat 0-100 half the GT500's on this forum), is all-screens.

Welcome to what people want.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
As a student of automotive design, and a collector/aficionado of design ranging from the 1900's to present-day, I truly do my best to step out of my "comfort zone", and appreciate what designers and engineers are trying to create that is NEW, and not just re-worked already-done lazy and obvious stuff. Having been to plenty of seminars with head designers from major automakers speaking, they admire and draw from the past, but also hunger for pushing the envelope moving forward, and creating and re-inventing. The biggest change in design that we've yet to see, is the fact that with no internal combustion engine, and electric motors at all four wheels, traditional "hood, passenger compartment, trunk" packaging is no longer a necessity. The layout of the modern car may shift dramatically. It's yet to happen, they're still holding back.

Anyhow, I think I might own more old/antiquated/classic stuff than most. I'm definitely living in the past on a daily basis LOL. And it's beautiful.

But I also have a huge thirst and appreciation for designs that are moving forward. And always appreciate when they sprinkle in some nods to the past, without making it look hokey. I think the Mach E accomplishes that.

They are going to sell friggin' awesome. Current Mustang sales reflects the fact that the general public just isn't buying 2-door anything anymore. Period. We're beyond lucky that Ford has continued to keep the traditional Mustang around.

The Mach E is going to be a hot seller. That's my prediction. If Henry Ford had listened to "enthusiasts" when designing the Model T, the entire concept of the car would've been screwed... It's about selling cars first. And if you sell enough cars, and make enough money, then and only then can you dabble with the fun stuff.
I have a feeling the "hood, passenger compartment, trunk" layout will stick around for awhile - the gives you crumple zones in front of and behind the passenger compartment which is a great safety benefit.
 

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I have a feeling the "hood, passenger compartment, trunk" layout will stick around for awhile - the gives you crumple zones in front of and behind the passenger compartment which is a great safety benefit.
True... It's more the proportions and geometries that are an open-book, albeit further restricted by pedestrian-impact mandates.
 

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As for the giant screen, car interiors are morphing more and more to resemble personal office spaces. Mercedes is also going in a similar direction, making the touch screen all inclusive and prominent.
The thing traditionalists can't/don't want to see and understand is as manufacturers push the boundaries on EV, the car is not only morphing to an office space, but an actual computer that can transport us from A to B. You have to design, create, and treat it as such. Seem familiar?

207991


At the launch of most EV's the limiting factor isn't the hardware (motors, cameras, PCB's, sensors, etc) it's the programming, source code and human-touch element. What we know, or are willing to risk due to safety, is finite at Launch date. However, as time progresses and we learn more, those programming changes can easily be pushed to the car. My guess is the biggest physical limiting factor of the Mach-E will be the battery... which, I assume, would be replaceable.

"Ope, Billy over at R&D realized if he utilized the flux capacitor a bit differently, we can obtain 50 more miles per charge. Suzie found a cool way to correlate the throttle data with the time of day to play types of music the driver would likely enjoy on Amazon music. Push the updates!!!! "

Now, a hesitation I have with a lot of this, is that it's going to be giving manufacturers A LOT of control over what you can do in/with your car. If the government decides to play in their pocketbooks, we could see limitations, restrictions, and overall reduction of freedom in how/where/when we can drive, all for the sake of safety. It draws a bit of a parallel with the way the "pandemic" is being handled currently, but I digress.

With these cars you're not going to tinker under the hood in the garage and boost your power. You're going to tinker with the "hokey" tablet and customize throttle sensitivity to your driving style, what level of Machine AI do you want to be incorporated, what's your HVAC preferences for each day/week/month of the year...

As you said, it's what a growing segment of the market wants. You make enough money on the eventual majority, you can make your enthusiasts happy with an 800 HP 2-door gas guzzler until we run out of fossil fuel. Scream, curse, complain, shout, and cry until your face turns blue if you don't like it, but it won't change a thing.
 

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The thing traditionalists can't/don't want to see and understand is as manufacturers push the boundaries on EV, the car is not only morphing to an office space, but an actual computer that can transport us from A to B. You have to design, create, and treat it as such. Seem familiar?

View attachment 207991

At the launch of most EV's the limiting factor isn't the hardware (motors, cameras, PCB's, sensors, etc) it's the programming, source code and human-touch element. What we know, or are willing to risk due to safety, is finite at Launch date. However, as time progresses and we learn more, those programming changes can easily be pushed to the car. My guess is the biggest physical limiting factor of the Mach-E will be the battery... which, I assume, would be replaceable.

"Ope, Billy over at R&D realized if he utilized the flux capacitor a bit differently, we can obtain 50 more miles per charge. Suzie found a cool way to correlate the throttle data with the time of day to play types of music the driver would likely enjoy on Amazon music. Push the updates!!!! "

Now, a hesitation I have with a lot of this, is that it's going to be giving manufacturers A LOT of control over what you can do in/with your car. If the government decides to play in their pocketbooks, we could see limitations, restrictions, and overall reduction of freedom in how/where/when we can drive, all for the sake of safety. It draws a bit of a parallel with the way the "pandemic" is being handled currently, but I digress.

With these cars you're not going to tinker under the hood in the garage and boost your power. You're going to tinker with the "hokey" tablet and customize throttle sensitivity to your driving style, what level of Machine AI do you want to be incorporated, what's your HVAC preferences for each day/week/month of the year...

As you said, it's what a growing segment of the market wants. You make enough money on the eventual majority, you can make your enthusiasts happy with an 800 HP 2-door gas guzzler until we run out of fossil fuel. Scream, curse, complain, shout, and cry until your face turns blue if you don't like it, but it won't change a thing.
Very well thought out..
 

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Very well thought out..
Thanks. I have my moments.

I've always seemed as though I have a keen way to look at the big picture and assess it fairly, logically, and emotionally-lacking (trademark Engineer I suppose?). It really makes me want to explore opening a business/develop a product and work for myself. Just too much risk involved, and working for the man provides the structure and security my family needs for the time being.

Plus, momma has her eyes on a Mach-E, no matter how many times I put the Bronco in front of her nose. So, we gotta keep saving those pennies because I can guarantee you they won't be over half-off MSRP after a year of ownership.
 

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Thanks. I have my moments.

I've always seemed as though I have a keen way to look at the big picture and assess it fairly, logically, and emotionally-lacking (trademark Engineer I suppose?). It really makes me want to explore opening a business/develop a product and work for myself. Just too much risk involved, and working for the man provides the structure and security my family needs for the time being.

Plus, momma has her eyes on a Mach-E, no matter how many times I put the Bronco in front of her nose. So, we gotta keep saving those pennies because I can guarantee you they won't be over half-off MSRP after a year of ownership.
LOL... At my house, momma wants a Bronco badly, WHILE KEEPING her current SUV.. I just smile and nod, smile and nod..
 

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LOL... At my house, momma wants a Bronco badly, WHILE KEEPING her current SUV.. I just smile and nod, smile and nod..
The way things are going, I may have to hit you up for a joy ride if we ever travel south.
 

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Complete other thread and topic...but to the Bronco...pressure has to be on Ford to stick the 5.0L in the Bronco now that the Wrangler has the 6.4L, no?
 

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Complete other thread and topic...but to the Bronco...pressure has to be on Ford to stick the 5.0L in the Bronco now that the Wrangler has the 6.4L, no?
Again, I think it's all about pushing the boundaries and not catering to a traditionalist crowd that won't get over "OMG no V8!". For one, how many of those traditionalist are actual potential buyers (financially or applicable)? Secondly, say they are buyers... they may moan and complain, but they're such a minority, that they won't move the sales needle. Every single reservation spot was taken day one without a V8.

The 3.5 and 2.7 have proven themselves on multiple platforms, most notably the F150. Performance wise, the 5.0 is not going to provide anything better than the 3.5. The only thing you could point to is exhaust. The scenario I could see Ford dropping the 5.0 in it is because it's too cheap/easy to do so and it's a no-brainer. I feel like if that was the case though, they would have from the start to get a leg up on Fiat.

The weight to power ratio is hard to argue for a "smaller" framed vehicle such as the Bronco. Again, majority of people are not going to care that it's an EcoBoost as they drive to the mall. They'll buy it regardless.
 
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