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I was on Facebook for about a week, then logged out and never looked back. I refuse to waste my valuable time.....randomly.........surfing........forums.

Hey, wait a minute!!!!!!
Wait wait hold on a minute this is an enthusiast forum based on education and information surrounding a topic of common interest.

I’ve never had a FB account so I have no idea what it’s about but I do know several people who’s lives were destroyed by garbage posted there. Not sure I’d fit in a negative environment where people are hell bent on destroying one another with words 😂😂😂
 

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Wait wait hold on a minute this is an enthusiast forum based on education and information surrounding a topic of common interest.

I’ve never had a FB account so I have no idea what it’s about but I do know several people who’s lives were destroyed by garbage posted there. Not sure I’d fit in a negative environment where people are hell bent on destroying one another with words 😂😂😂
Some of the stuff my wife tells me her friends and coworkers post on Facebbok blows my mind. And yes, we've seen relationships, families, and others, literally ripped apart by that crap. So sad really.
 

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Discussion Starter · #184 ·
Chris, this is different, people here love GT500's and cars in general, not posting pictures of there dinner, or watering there lawn and other who cares things they post on GPFB.( GOOFY PEOPLE FACEBOOK:ROFLMAO:
I agree wholeheartedly. Now I’m going back to what I was doing……
Food Pizza Ingredient Recipe Staple food
 

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2021 GT500 Race Red
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That’s a big pie!
Sure the F is, where you get that Pizza? Over here, Domino's is okay, Yellow Cab, and S&R are my choices oh and crappyHUT. in Manila there is a great pizza place Napoli's, awesome pizza, Hey us Sicilians love our Pasta, and Pizza. 😆

Why don't Italians have BBQ's?

The Spaghetti goes though the grill🤷‍♀️
 

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Here ya go Barb.....

Evan Smith


"I completely understand how difficult change is for some people, it takes time for new styling to grow on me, too, but good or bad, educate yourself before commenting publicly. Saying Ford styled the S650 after the Camaro or Charger is ridiculous. Do they share similarities? Yes, they share style cues, they have since the Camaro was introduced in 1967 (a beautiful design BTW). So does the BMW 4-Series for that matter.
First, there’s form and function, so changes were made to enhance cooling, air inlet to feed the MOST POWERFUL Coyote ever, improve aero and of course to evolve the vehicle. Ford also knows how iconic and passionate Mustang owners are. So… Ford is sure to maintain key styling cues that tie Mustang to its heritage. Overall, some will like the direction of styling, others won’t. That’s okay.
Second, many cars look alike or have similar traits (see attached photos), as there’s a thing called styling trends. They evolve with gov requirements, design trends, etc. I’m reading so many negative comments by people who call themselves enthusiasts, but clearly don’t understand design, trends or the fact that automakers are faced with thousands of challenges and regulations when building new models. It’s freaking hard to get it right. If you saw what I saw last week you’d know how important it is to the humans who work there to deliver a perfect Mustang. We’re you expecting a 1969 Mustang Wednesday night?
Third, how about checking out the new Mustang in person before locking in your opinion. See the lines and design before dropping oversimplified, common-man comments. I mean, the silhouette hasn’t really changed much, so where were these comments in 2015?
How about enjoy the fact that Ford has passionate engineers, designers, and other employees who keep making the car faster, safer, smarter, with a V8 and manual, so YOU can enjoy your hobby? And if you truly don’t like it, explain why in detail, sound educated instead of acting like cry-baby sheep.
Lastly, why would Ford copy anything? With the exception of 2021, Mustang has outsold Camaro and Challenger every year since 2015 (and a bunch before that). The Mustang is the only pony car to run consecutively for 58 years, while the others have died before and are about to die again. Now look at the photos, you’ll see similarities in design and shapes across all brands. And most of all, have a great weekend! Yes, they share style cues, they have since the Camaro was introduced in 1967 (a beautiful design BTW)."

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or This,

 

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Here ya go Barb.....

Evan Smith


"I completely understand how difficult change is for some people, it takes time for new styling to grow on me, too, but good or bad, educate yourself before commenting publicly. Saying Ford styled the S650 after the Camaro or Charger is ridiculous. Do they share similarities? Yes, they share style cues, they have since the Camaro was introduced in 1967 (a beautiful design BTW). So does the BMW 4-Series for that matter.
First, there’s form and function, so changes were made to enhance cooling, air inlet to feed the MOST POWERFUL Coyote ever, improve aero and of course to evolve the vehicle. Ford also knows how iconic and passionate Mustang owners are. So… Ford is sure to maintain key styling cues that tie Mustang to its heritage. Overall, some will like the direction of styling, others won’t. That’s okay.
Second, many cars look alike or have similar traits (see attached photos), as there’s a thing called styling trends. They evolve with gov requirements, design trends, etc. I’m reading so many negative comments by people who call themselves enthusiasts, but clearly don’t understand design, trends or the fact that automakers are faced with thousands of challenges and regulations when building new models. It’s freaking hard to get it right. If you saw what I saw last week you’d know how important it is to the humans who work there to deliver a perfect Mustang. We’re you expecting a 1969 Mustang Wednesday night?
Third, how about checking out the new Mustang in person before locking in your opinion. See the lines and design before dropping oversimplified, common-man comments. I mean, the silhouette hasn’t really changed much, so where were these comments in 2015?
How about enjoy the fact that Ford has passionate engineers, designers, and other employees who keep making the car faster, safer, smarter, with a V8 and manual, so YOU can enjoy your hobby? And if you truly don’t like it, explain why in detail, sound educated instead of acting like cry-baby sheep.
Lastly, why would Ford copy anything? With the exception of 2021, Mustang has outsold Camaro and Challenger every year since 2015 (and a bunch before that). The Mustang is the only pony car to run consecutively for 58 years, while the others have died before and are about to die again. Now look at the photos, you’ll see similarities in design and shapes across all brands. And most of all, have a great weekend! Yes, they share style cues, they have since the Camaro was introduced in 1967 (a beautiful design BTW)."

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Eh…the new Mustang still looks like a Camaro. It’s still lazy design; his pedantic rant only reinforces the lack of Ford creativity here. They spent all their bullets on our GT500. That’s cool. Let’s not pretend they didn’t phone in 2024’s model tho. Let’s hope they think hard about the next GT500 so we don’t end up with a Lucid with an emblem of a Donkey sitting on a snake called the Dark Snake.
 

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Article reviewing 2024 Camarostang design…to summarize: a reheat of leftovers.

 

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It’s essentially a refresh. Why would ford go away from what makes the current Mustang so popular? Different designs always bring criticism. It will die down once everyone gets used to the change. Look at bmw and the new pig snout. It’s grown on everyone and actually looks really good on the M trim lines. I think ford hit a home run with the dark horse design.
 

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Article reviewing 2024 Camarostang design…to summarize: a reheat of leftovers.

To be fair he also calls our cars ugly:

“Much of the problem with the S550 Mustang was that it had turned into a bit of a pastiche. It was always a slightly awkward, gawky looking thing, endowed with too much hood and deck and not really enough passenger cabin. The overhangs were a bit too long, the roofline a bit too tight. Listen to some uniformed commentators and they’ll tell you that’s what makes muscle car proportions, too much is great and even more is better. Well that’s why they’re uninformed and I do this for a living. It’s all about nuance and balance in the volumes and proportions. The thing with this new Mustang is it uses the existing car’s body in white, so these proportions haven’t changed […] But this is the last the last ICE Mustang we’re going to get and it’s basically the same as the last one but uglier?”

Gets history wrong:

“Ford is determined to keep us in 1964. After the first Mustang, we had the baroque malaise Mustang II. Ok, not great, but it sold (a lot!), was the right car for the right time and kept the name alive.”

He skipped a couple cars there before ending in the Mustang II.

——-


Mustang design language has always been long hood, short trunk, low to the ground. That goes back to the first car. What this designer is saying is that the Ford designers got it wrong or need to give up trying to make sure that we still see cues to the original bloodline of the car. Corvette has developed a design language that goes throughout all of their generations of the car and so have many other iconic cars. Just because he calls that “pastiche” which I had to look up (a work of art that imitates the work of one or more other artists but is not trying to be a parody — he said this meaning our cars, S550), doesn’t make him right.

Wheel Car Tire Vehicle Land vehicle


Looking at the concept designs, the one thing they all have is the basic design language that scream to all of us “Mustang”—even the four door concept.

I know a few famous car designers. They are all very opinionated but I’ll stick with the design language of Ford designers and if it ditched the long hood, short deck lid and now had a short hood and was a completely different shape, it would be a new car with only the name Mustang attached to it. Like how the Maverick is now a truck, and it’s listed as a current Ford icon, huh?

To you’re overall point that the designer says that this is just a reheat of the old car, yes it is. No one can deny that. Ford’s marketing may trick the casual observer in saying it is "all new", but it is not a blank sheet of paper car. It is to the 2015 Mustang design what the 2010 Mustang was to 2005—same chassis, different body. Even the 1999 Mustang or “the New Edge Mustang” was just a new body of the previous car. The difference here is instead of the design continuing the same chassis number as those two examples had, this one is now called the S650. In that sense it is a completely different car and thus the new chassis designation.

The interior was attempting to invoke what it is like to be inside of an F-35 fighter.
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Cockpit Steering wheel Speedometer


I think it’s fair to say that was a hit and a miss or to quote that famous Jurassic Park quote: “they we’re so focused on if they could that they never stopped to think if they should.” Lamborghini design has been inspired by American fighter jets for the last 12 years or so, taking design cues from the F-22 Raptor. This is the first time that someone said that they tried to make the interior look like that of a fifth-generation fighter jet. The issue I have with it, along with spending millions of dollars to develop a drift brake “with all of our friend Vaugh Gittin Jr." (to quote the Mustang debut MC) is who asked for this?

Who said, “I want the interior to be 100 percent screen even though it evokes an iPad, and not a new iPad with small black borders, more of a second generation iPad.” It reminds me of EVs. I’m glad it has Sync 4, but I’m not nostalgic for buttons or hoping that make a return, so my real complaint is really the integration and execution.

A good friend of mine noted yesterday that Porsche knew how to make a modern digital dashboard but on one glance of it, you had all the information, but you also knew that you were inside of a Porsche. The new 2023 GT3RS has a beautifully integrated digital dash in it.
Speedometer Gear shift Trip computer Vehicle Car


Same or even more information to be fair, but it also tells you the history of the car, has a tie to the past, and continues it on with a new digital future.

This new car, in an aesthetic manner, is less an evolution of our digital dash in its integration and more so a jump to the large iPad screens everywhere now days in electric cars.

Vehicle Gadget Automotive design Personal luxury car Automotive mirror


If you were to plop me down and show me this and said "Where are you and describe what I was looking at" my first answer would not say that I was inside of a car. It would be maybe I'm on a couch and I'm staring an an iPad or a new mobile device and I'm in some instrument cluster app that I downloaded from the App Store. Car would have been my second guess, but if you would have told me that I was in a Mustang I would think you were delusional and I would then try to sell you sunshine in a bag or a $100,000 marked up base model GT500 from Poway Ford (either or).

And who said give me a drift brake? (I know it was journalists, but they are not the people who buy the cars.)

The millions that were spent paying Gittin Jr. to develop a handbrake that less than 1% of owners will actually use for drifting should've been spent making a better-integrated screen. Journalist love to drift mustangs all day long, but they don't have to pay for the tires or for a crashed car. The actual consumer—especially the owners of the top models would have yelled to Ford when they asked "Don't you want to be able to do sweet smokey drifts in your GT500 or Mach 1?

Tracey Morgan No GIF - Tracey Morgan No Nope GIFs


"HAVE YOU SEEN HOW MUCH MY REAR TIRES COST?! ALSO THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO BE OUT OF STOCK?!! NO!!!!"


People learning how to drift can be spotted by looking for damage on the rear of their cars.
rsx | lifewithjson | Page 2

Team MINT - Blog - Sonoma Drift Round 3



Many of my college friends who were getting into drifting, that is how the rear of their cars looked like because they are not Gittin Jr. who is a pro, they are amateurs and people will make mistakes and crash.

Ford says "but you can look like this..."

Drifting



Yeah, but in reality, you will more so, at least for the first years look like this...

drift crash | GT323 | Flickr


Expectation vs. Reality. And btw more years of lame Mustangs crash at Cars and Coffee jokes by every automotive journalist.

Which I always respond to by posting the following video link:



It's almost as if Ford wanted to get in on the joke by saying "Okay, Mustangs crash at cars and coffee? Well, we are now adding a drift mode with a drift handle!! Look out! or ...
Will Smith Run GIF by MOODMAN - Find & Share on GIPHY


Gittin Jr. has a tire sponsor, journalists don't own the car and don't pay for tires. It seems out of touch that so much in funds and resources were focused on something that almost no one will use (less than 1%). It is as useless as if the new iPhone came equipped with a bottle cap opener. People would still buy the phone, but no one is using that feature to open their drinks. This new drift handle will be used by every car journalist reviewing the car, but the consumer will only use it to engage their parking brake right before they turn the car off. Makes no sense and those monies should've been spent on something that would have a much higher use by the customer. Barring a program where Ford replaces tires and drifting crash damage. You developed a new drift mode, but in reality—in usage, you just redesigned the electrical parking brake switch.

So again, I agree. It is a redesign, Ford can call it "All New" but that's just marketing. Same as the "All new Nissan Z" is really just a rebooted 370Z.
 

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To each their own, that’s what makes the car world so interesting. Anyway, after my initial “meh”, the more I look at the Dark Horse the more I like it (sans the badge) especially after looking at more pics and different colors. It hits (IMHO) the best things the Mustang has over the rest, a bit taller cockpit you can see out of being #1 and my main reason for buying over the others, and lines that flow for lack of a better description. Definitely like the front end over the S550, honestly don’t hate the prior look but dis not love it. Always reminded me of a catfish or whale shark from the front. If the Shelby hadn’t had a different front end I may not have bought it, it totally makes the car better or special for me. I really hesitate to comment on interiors from pictures, got to sit in them first. Generally not a fan of Jumbotron screens but I do like the amount of information and choice of said information you can get at a glance. HVAC and other one touch controls should be buttons or knobs
 

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To be fair he also calls our cars ugly:

“Much of the problem with the S550 Mustang was that it had turned into a bit of a pastiche. It was always a slightly awkward, gawky looking thing, endowed with too much hood and deck and not really enough passenger cabin. The overhangs were a bit too long, the roofline a bit too tight. Listen to some uniformed commentators and they’ll tell you that’s what makes muscle car proportions, too much is great and even more is better. Well that’s why they’re uninformed and I do this for a living. It’s all about nuance and balance in the volumes and proportions. The thing with this new Mustang is it uses the existing car’s body in white, so these proportions haven’t changed […] But this is the last the last ICE Mustang we’re going to get and it’s basically the same as the last one but uglier?”

Gets history wrong:

“Ford is determined to keep us in 1964. After the first Mustang, we had the baroque malaise Mustang II. Ok, not great, but it sold (a lot!), was the right car for the right time and kept the name alive.”

He skipped a couple cars there before ending in the Mustang II.

——-


Mustang design language has always been long hood, short trunk, low to the ground. That goes back to the first car. What this designer is saying is that the Ford designers got it wrong or need to give up trying to make sure that we still see cues to the original bloodline of the car. Corvette has developed a design language that goes throughout all of their generations of the car and so have many other iconic cars. Just because he calls that “pastiche” which I had to look up (a work of art that imitates the work of one or more other artists but is not trying to be a parody — he said this meaning our cars, S550), doesn’t make him right.

View attachment 247248

Looking at the concept designs, the one thing they all have is the basic design language that scream to all of us “Mustang”—even the four door concept.

I know a few famous car designers. They are all very opinionated but I’ll stick with the design language of Ford designers and if it ditched the long hood, short deck lid and now had a short hood and was a completely different shape, it would be a new car with only the name Mustang attached to it. Like how the Maverick is now a truck, and it’s listed as a current Ford icon, huh?

To you’re overall point that the designer says that this is just a reheat of the old car, yes it is. No one can deny that. Ford’s marketing may trick the casual observer in saying it is "all new", but it is not a blank sheet of paper car. It is to the 2015 Mustang design what the 2010 Mustang was to 2005—same chassis, different body. Even the 1999 Mustang or “the New Edge Mustang” was just a new body of the previous car. The difference here is instead of the design continuing the same chassis number as those two examples had, this one is now called the S650. In that sense it is a completely different car and thus the new chassis designation.

The interior was attempting to invoke what it is like to be inside of an F-35 fighter. View attachment 247249

I think it’s fair to say that was a hit and a miss or to quote that famous Jurassic Park quote: “they we’re so focused on if they could that they never stopped to think if they should.” Lamborghini design has been inspired by American fighter jets for the last 12 years or so, taking design cues from the F-22 Raptor. This is the first time that someone said that they tried to make the interior look like that of a fifth-generation fighter jet. The issue I have with it, along with spending millions of dollars to develop a drift brake “with all of our friend Vaugh Gittin Jr." (to quote the Mustang debut MC) is who asked for this?

Who said, “I want the interior to be 100 percent screen even though it evokes an iPad, and not a new iPad with small black borders, more of a second generation iPad.” It reminds me of EVs. I’m glad it has Sync 4, but I’m not nostalgic for buttons or hoping that make a return, so my real complaint is really the integration and execution.

A good friend of mine noted yesterday that Porsche knew how to make a modern digital dashboard but on one glance of it, you had all the information, but you also knew that you were inside of a Porsche. View attachment 247253

Same or even more information to be fair, but it also tells you the history of the car, has a tie to the past, and continues it on with a new digital future.

This new car, in an aesthetic manner, is less an evolution of our digital dash in its integration and more so a jump to the large iPad screens everywhere now days in electric cars.

View attachment 247254

If you were to plop me down and show me this and said "Where are you and describe what I was looking at" my first answer would not say that I was inside of a car. It would be maybe I'm on a couch and I'm staring an an iPad or a new mobile device and I'm in some instrument cluster app that I downloaded from the App Store. Car would have been my second guess, but if you would have told me that I was in a Mustang I would think you were delusional and I would then try to sell you sunshine in a bag or a $100,000 marked up base model GT500 from Poway Ford (either or).

The millions that were spent paying Gittin Jr. to develop a handbrake that less than 1% of owners will actually use for drifting should've been spend making a better integrated screen. Journalist love to drift mustangs all day long, but they don't have to pay for the tires or for a crashed car. The actual consumer—especially the owners of the top models would have yelled to Ford when they asked "Don't you want to be able to do sweet smokey drifts in your GT500 or Mach 1?

Tracey Morgan No GIF - Tracey Morgan No Nope GIFs


"HAVE YOU SEEN HOW MUCH MY REAR TIRES COST?! ALSO THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO BE OUT OF STOCK?!! NO!!!!"


Gittin Jr. has a tire sponsor, journalists don't own the car and don't pay for tires. It seems out of touch that so much in funds and resources were focused on something that almost no one will use (less than 1%). It is as useless as if the new iPhone came equipped with a bottle cap opener, they would still buy the phone, but no one is using that feature on to open their drinks. This new drift handle will be used by every car journalist reviewing the car, but the consumer will only use it to engage their parking brake right before the car turns off. Makes no sense and that monies should've been spent on something that would have a much higher use by the customer. Barring a program where Ford replaces tires and drifting crash damage, you just redesigned the electrical parking brake switch.

So again, I agree. It is a redesign, Ford can call it "All New" but that's just marketing. Same as the "All new Nissan Z" is really just a rebooted 370Z.
Great points, especially around Porsche and the screen integration generally. The tacked on display kills me. I was going to buy an M5 comp…I loved the lux interior, AWD, big engine. It test drove well, if a bit sterile on road feel. But that glued on afterthought of a screen in it killed me.

I test drove several Porsches recently (looking at one of those too). The screens “felt like a Porsche”…high tech, modern, but also traditional Porsche design cues. Now, their cup holders are still abysmal and unworthy of a car. But at least those seemed aligned with their aesthetic too (also a deal killer for me since I want my cars to be daily driver capable). I know, I know. I’m picky and unreasonable. ;-)

Also keep in mind that with big screens comes big haptic responsibilities. If you don’t have tactile sensations available, your fingers (and attention) can get lost, which leads to a garbage (and unsafe) experience. Tesla is notorious for shit UI; the Germans spend the $ on their nicer cars to do a better but still not great job.

I’ve worked with Ford HQ and engineering. Ford engineers know well the state of the art in haptic design and have tested many by their Tier 1 and Tier 2 suppliers, plus Indy solutions. But at their target price point per car given them by the Ford suits, you simply can’t get a quality screen, modern haptic motors like voice coils, and good firmware. At best you get 20 year old crap solenoids. Another opportunity wasted. Again.
 

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To each their own, that’s what makes the car world so interesting. Anyway, after my initial “meh”, the more I look at the Dark Horse the more I like it (sans the badge) especially after looking at more pics and different colors. It hits (IMHO) the best things the Mustang has over the rest, a bit taller cockpit you can see out of being #1 and my main reason for buying over the others, and lines that flow for lack of a better description. Definitely like the front end over the S550, honestly don’t hate the prior look but dis not love it. Always reminded me of a catfish or whale shark from the front. If the Shelby hadn’t had a different front end I may not have bought it, it totally makes the car better or special for me. I really hesitate to comment on interiors from pictures, got to sit in them first. Generally not a fan of Jumbotron screens but I do like the amount of information and choice of said information you can get at a glance. HVAC and other one touch controls should be buttons or knobs
Good point on the cockpit. The Mustang is easy to see out of relative to the Camaro with its pitiful back window. Also easier to see out of than a Vette too, at least for my size.
 

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Ford has not hidden the fact that from the 2015 MY forward, the Mustang is designed for a world vs U.S. market..
Why would they hide that? Mustang had to go worldwide or it wouldn’t be able to exist, and we’re all reaping the benefits of that move. IRS on all cars, better handling and those changes have turned it from a muscle car into a true sportscar. It has also resulted in major respect from major automakers: Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, etc. because now the Mustang is a viewed as a serious contender that performs both on-road and on-track. Just yesterday, I had a guy in a brand new 2023 Porsche GT3 pull next to me and give me a thumbs up 👍🏾 on the freeway. None of that could’ve happened if not for Ford deciding that to make the Mustang brand survive, it had to take it into markets were the mustang would be cross shopped by buyers who had BMW, Mercedes, as the benchmark, and it would be expected to be capable on very windy roads. Making Mustang a world car was a good thing.

I wouldn’t say that is is “versus” the US market—Mustang got better by a huge margin because it had to compete vs. the Europeans mainstays (the Germans) in quality, handling, and equipment instead of back when Ford only had to worry about Camaro or Dodge.
 
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