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Well, Dodge has gone and done it again.

http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000270066570/
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/n...ncept-car/1554/

The Challenger is coming back, with a 6.4 Hemi (not 6.1). 510+ horses stock, no blower.

The GT500, while it will be the fastest muscle car for a year or two, won't be when this MONSTER comes out. We're talking low-mid 12s in this thing, with a Mercedes-based chassis & suspension to boot.

Good grief.

I'll take one, thank you... after I sell the house & wife.
 

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Yeah, but as always... Ford leads the way in innovation. Ford builds/creates a great vehicle and everyone copies.

Same thing applies to trucks. GM's not so bad but DCX pretty much waits for Ford's product then tries to 1-up it 2-3 model years later.

It'll be great if the Challenger and/or Camaro get built but there's something special about owning the original - IMO.


MustangSally said:
Well, Dodge has gone and done it again.

http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000270066570/
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/n...ncept-car/1554/

The Challenger is coming back, with a 6.4 Hemi (not 6.1). 510+ horses stock, no blower.

The GT500, while it will be the fastest muscle car for a year or two, won't be when this MONSTER comes out. We're talking low-mid 12s in this thing, with a Mercedes-based chassis & suspension to boot.

Good grief.

I'll take one, thank you... after I sell the house & wife.
 

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Blue Oval what are you talking about? Both dodge and ford trucks stayed the same for many years until dodge redesigned the ram in 1994, Ford followed in 1997. Dodge redesigned in 2002 and ford followed in 2004. So if anyone is trying to "one up the other" it is ford. Too bad they just aren't doing a very good job at it. Why is it that when ford wants more power out of an engine they slap a supercharger on it. Give me a 425hp n/a engine over a 450hp supercharged engine anyday. You get a smoother power curve and the ability to upgrade it. As far as the challenger goes I think it will be able to take the GT in a drag race, but won't be able to touch the GT in handling.
 

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Bottom line is this, Chrysler products are horrible. Shouldn't we keep this debate between the last two US auto companies?
 

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Chrysler is merged with Mercedes which is a foreign company. Ford has mazda, volvo, jaguar, land rover, and aston martin which are all foreign companies. So if you say Chrysler isn't American then you would definately have to say the same about Ford. Please people do a little research before you post.
 

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Whoa!!! Whoa!!! Dodge built crap for 20+ years before they started building quality again in the 90's. It cracks me up that the Dodge people act like they never stopped building quality automobiles. The entire Chrysler nameplate would be nothing if not for Daimler anyway. I believe it was a foregone conclusion that Daimler would rebuild the Chrysler nameplates. Those people (Daimler) always put out quality autos.

Working from memory:
F Series trucks have had major renovations per the following schedule:

Pre - 1981, uh, I don't remember ;)
1981-1986
1987-1996
1997-2003
2004 - Present

Dodge trucks were basically the same (ugly) from 1972-1993, these were known as the "Lifestyle" trucks. I may be wrong on this but I'm pretty certain they never did more than cosmetic changes for years. My memory fades on that because you really never saw anybody driving one.

If Dodge is the leader, why wasn't the SRT10 out before the Lightning? What about this "Challenger"? Appropriately named I think - Challenger, one who "challenges" the champion. When it comes to "Pony" cars and trucks, Ford is the leader - no doubt.

Why do you think they call them "Pony" cars?

Oh, hahahahaha, why is a 425HP n/a engine better than a 450HP blown engine??? Is it because DCX can't figure out how to properly tune a blown engine? 425HP at 400-500 Cubic Inches, too. Big friggin' whoop. I'm more impressed with 450HP out of 331 CI than I am with 500HP out of 500CI. I mentioned this on another thread but you pay a premium to get all that N/A HP.

There are 450RWHP+ 4.6L Mustangs all over the place and that's a 281 cubic inch motor.

But... we could go on forever about this I suppose. ...and, I must admit, I thought this was a "Ford" board because of the domain name. All I see our DCX trolls though. My bad.




dj2_7 said:
Blue Oval what are you talking about? Both dodge and ford trucks stayed the same for many years until dodge redesigned the ram in 1994, Ford followed in 1997. Dodge redesigned in 2002 and ford followed in 2004. So if anyone is trying to "one up the other" it is ford. Too bad they just aren't doing a very good job at it. Why is it that when ford wants more power out of an engine they slap a supercharger on it. Give me a 425hp n/a engine over a 450hp supercharged engine anyday. You get a smoother power curve and the ability to upgrade it. As far as the challenger goes I think it will be able to take the GT in a drag race, but won't be able to touch the GT in handling.
 

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Ok, quick lesson:

Chrysler didn't MERGE with anybody. It got OWNED by Daimler Benz. Period.

Ford didn't MERGE with anybody. It OWNS Volvo, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Mazda, Land Rover, etc.



dj2_7 said:
Chrysler is merged with Mercedes which is a foreign company. Ford has mazda, volvo, jaguar, land rover, and aston martin which are all foreign companies. So if you say Chrysler isn't American then you would definately have to say the same about Ford. Please people do a little research before you post.
 

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^so the entire Chrysler nameplate would be nothing without the Germans, huh.....tell that to Bob Lutz when he ok'd the Viper before the merger, and before going to GM.

Very, very few cars kept the muscle car craze alive till now, it was a combination of GM, Ford, and Chrsyler at different times, now that everyone is back in the game, some may want to take ALL of the credit.

I'm just thankful for what we've got now, and will support them all in hopes that it continues...well, 'til they rev up on me on the street that is.
 

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MustangSally said:
Well, Dodge has gone and done it again.

http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000270066570/
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/n...ncept-car/1554/

The Challenger is coming back, with a 6.4 Hemi (not 6.1). 510+ horses stock, no blower.

The GT500, while it will be the fastest muscle car for a year or two, won't be when this MONSTER comes out. We're talking low-mid 12s in this thing, with a Mercedes-based chassis & suspension to boot.

Good grief.

I'll take one, thank you... after I sell the house & wife.
That's not what I heard the 6.4l 500+ hp hemi is aftermarket only,and I just came back from the 2006 Detroit Auto Show(NAIAS),....and the dcx reps stated that the srt-8 version of the challenger will only have the 425hp 6.1l version in it when released......So,....Ford Shelby GT-500 Mustang wins again!!;) :D :cool: Plus the challenger won't have a solid rear axle for quick gear changes and the weight will be close to 4100lbs.Plus blower motors have alot more potential to gaining more HP,then a maxed out high compression non-blown engine.;) The Shelby GT-500 will be 475++ hp...and alot of potential to gain more.
 

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^nobody knows for sure, but my guy who I've used over the years had been advised of the Challe 392, and he told me about it..It can happen...Now the great thing is, he reps for both Dodge and Ford among others, and he always sells to me below sticker....waiting on a list just means you'd like to pay well above sticker, good luck with that. p.s. you're not getting #1...when I'm ready to purchase, I'll pay below sticker thanks, and I may put that offer out to others in my area at that time.
 

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Here is a link to the chrysler-mercedes MERGER http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/americas/9805/07/benz.chrysler.merger/

but hey I'll go with what you say blue oval then I can tell everyone I drive a Mercedes Ram.

I'll admit the late 70's and 80's were bad for dodge, but who weren't they bad for. Come on a 4cyl mustang. No auto makers put out an outstanding vehicle, just a bunch of decent vehicles. You can't hold that against them forever.

As far as them all trying to one up each other. They all do it. I've seen plenty of ford ads that mention chevy and dodge. I personally thank them for trying to one up each other, it makes the vehicles better. Could you imagine the vehicles that we would have if they didn't care what else was out there.

The lightning wasn't the first performance truck. Dodge put out "The Dude" in the 70's. Speaking of the lightning where is it now?

The reason I would rather have a n/a engine over a blown engine is quite simple. Look at the Hennessy viper 900 horse power, try doing that to a 331ci engine and see if it lasts over 5 min. Why do you think they use big blocks in top fuel dragsters. It's not hard to understand the bigger the engine the higher the top power can be. WHy couldn't dodge tune a blown engine, anyone can slap a blower on an engine and make it work, just needs more fuel which is easy to figure out.

How many people change there gears alot in a production vehicle.

I really wouldn't say I'm a dodge person out of the 3 vehicles I own 2 are chevy's. I realize this is a ford forum, but to say any one company just copies another one is just ignorance. They all do it and it makes everone's lives better.

I agree with Polar Bear 100%
 

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The Hennessy Viper.

Now, how much does that cost? A 650R is advertised at ~$105,000.

http://www.venomviper.com/

Do you think that with that budget, the right person couldn't build a Ford product to go just as fast? What's the 1/4mi time in that Hennessy Viper? I've seen modded 4.6L Mustangs run 8.6 - 8.9s 1/4's. Not much slower than that Viper I bet and a lot cheaper.

Don't belittle those "little" Ford engines too much. They'll surprise you.

Last Ford Lightning I saw was toasting an SRT-10 at the local 1/8mi strip.

Come to think of it, last modded 6.0 Powerstroke F250 I saw was toasting that same SRT-10 at the same 1/8mi track.

Daimler went to great extremes for Chrysler to maintain its American identity - just as Toyota goes to great pains to brand itself as "American" - that's why that "merger" is worded that way.

Oh, I know (and have seen the vehicle) a guy who has a 5.4L (331CI) engine what puts out about ~700RWHP - that's REAR WHEEL HP. It's a built racing engine of course.

Brad Barnett's site reported that a pre-production GT500 dyno'd at 638RWHP. CAI, tune, and an exhaust. He's considered very reliable.

Personally, when I get my GT500, the HP's going up because I will mod it to my liking. ..and will gladly take on all "challengers" as long as it's all done in the name of good, clean fun.

I didn't mean for this to turn into a flame contest and I apologize if it did. We each have our own way of thinking and that's just the way it is. I DO respect your opinion but will defend my Ford turf :)


dj2_7 said:
Here is a link to the chrysler-mercedes MERGER http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/americas/9805/07/benz.chrysler.merger/

but hey I'll go with what you say blue oval then I can tell everyone I drive a Mercedes Ram.

I'll admit the late 70's and 80's were bad for dodge, but who weren't they bad for. Come on a 4cyl mustang. No auto makers put out an outstanding vehicle, just a bunch of decent vehicles. You can't hold that against them forever.

As far as them all trying to one up each other. They all do it. I've seen plenty of ford ads that mention chevy and dodge. I personally thank them for trying to one up each other, it makes the vehicles better. Could you imagine the vehicles that we would have if they didn't care what else was out there.

The lightning wasn't the first performance truck. Dodge put out "The Dude" in the 70's. Speaking of the lightning where is it now?

The reason I would rather have a n/a engine over a blown engine is quite simple. Look at the Hennessy viper 900 horse power, try doing that to a 331ci engine and see if it lasts over 5 min. Why do you think they use big blocks in top fuel dragsters. It's not hard to understand the bigger the engine the higher the top power can be. WHy couldn't dodge tune a blown engine, anyone can slap a blower on an engine and make it work, just needs more fuel which is easy to figure out.

How many people change there gears alot in a production vehicle.

I really wouldn't say I'm a dodge person out of the 3 vehicles I own 2 are chevy's. I realize this is a ford forum, but to say any one company just copies another one is just ignorance. They all do it and it makes everone's lives better.

I agree with Polar Bear 100%
 

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PolarBear said:
^nobody knows for sure, but my guy who I've used over the years had been advised of the Challe 392, and he told me about it..It can happen...Now the great thing is, he reps for both Dodge and Ford among others, and he always sells to me below sticker....waiting on a list just means you'd like to pay well above sticker, good luck with that. p.s. you're not getting #1...when I'm ready to purchase, I'll pay below sticker thanks, and I may put that offer out to others in my area at that time.
Brother,....Can you hook me up with that deal? I'm in the northeast.
 

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BlueOval said:
Brad Barnett's site reported that a pre-production GT500 dyno'd at 638RWHP. CAI, tune, and an exhaust. He's considered very reliable.

Personally, when I get my GT500, the HP's going up because I will mod it to my liking. ..and will gladly take on all "challengers" as long as it's all done in the name of good, clean fun.
I totally agree brother!!!.....And I heard the same from Brad....and trust me,....He is very very reliable on his word. I'll take this s/c engine anyday to kick some serious butt,....and rumors are from brad,....that this is only the beginning,...as there is alot more HP to be had from this beast!!!;) :D :cool:
 

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VenomSnake said:
Brother,....Can you hook me up with that deal? I'm in the northeast.
Of course...I'm in PA....when they come out, my guy will hook you up...he has people from all up and down the east coast come to him. PM me later this year or next or when you're ready to buy and if I'm not ready yet, I'll still give you his number.

...stay off the lists...buy some gas with that money...
 

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No need for research here. I simply know what I am talking about and since you have already been spanked by other forum members... I'll leave you alone. :p
 

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MustangSally said:
Well, Dodge has gone and done it again.

http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000270066570/
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/n...ncept-car/1554/

The Challenger is coming back, with a 6.4 Hemi (not 6.1). 510+ horses stock, no blower.

The GT500, while it will be the fastest muscle car for a year or two, won't be when this MONSTER comes out. We're talking low-mid 12s in this thing, with a Mercedes-based chassis & suspension to boot.

Good grief.

I'll take one, thank you... after I sell the house & wife.
First,...the new challenger is only coming with the 425hp in the srt-8 version(not the 6.4l 500hp one,that is strickly a crate engine from mopar).:rolleyes: Second,...You can do alot more hp upgrades with a motor built with lower compression supercharged motor,...than you can with a higher compression non s/c engine.....example,...I could just add a different pulley,tune and exhaust and have instant at least 600++hp for not that much cost. Game over!...you also need to take that mustang avatar off,the way your talking,..you don't deserve it.:p ;) :D
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
VenomSnake said:
First,...the new challenger is only coming with the 425hp in the srt-8 version(not the 6.4l 500hp one,that is strickly a crate engine from mopar).:rolleyes: Second,...You can do alot more hp upgrades with a motor built with lower compression supercharged motor,...than you can with a higher compression non s/c engine.....example,...I could just add a different pulley,tune and exhaust and have instant at least 600++hp for not that much cost. Game over!...you also need to take that mustang avatar off,the way your talking,..you don't deserve it.:p ;) :D
Yeah, it sounds like DCX pulled the plug on the 6.4 deal... haven't been in here in awhile, hence its dated info.

Make no mistake, I LOVE my Mustang GT... and would LOVE to get a GT500... but there's NO WAY 95% of the GT500 fans would EVER afford one. Ford's going to produce, what, 20,000 GT500's?!?! I've heard rumors that its going to actually sell for $70-80,000. COME ON! There's NO WAY I'd pay that much for a mustang. Anyone that would is nuts (and insanely rich).

So the selling price alone makes this car quasi-exotic and in the same price range as 911s, and more than a new Z06... which puts it in a class (at least with the Z06) that it can't be top dog - stock.

So, in the grand scheme of things, what's the point of having a MUSTANG (an average guy's muscle car) that the average guy will never afford?!?!

There is no point in it at all. Only the rich will own this car... the same people that can afford the Porsches, etc.

They've effectively taken a car that should be affordable to most, and made it unattainable because of its limited production... might as well druel over Ferrari's... same pipe-dream.

Dodge did do it right with their SRT lineup... they're building enough of these cars to limit dealer markups and eventually, for all intents and purposes, eliminate the markups.

So, what it comes down to is, if you want a 400hp American muscle car, but don't want to/can't spend over $45,000 (including markup), you'll only have one brand: Dodge... who'll offer the Charger SRT8, Challenger SRT8 (if produced) & Jeep GC SRT8 (SUV obviously). Sure, there are places that are marking these cars up to the roof, but in other areas, they're selling at MSRP.
 

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MustangSally said:
Yeah, it sounds like DCX pulled the plug on the 6.4 deal... haven't been in here in awhile, hence its dated info.

Make no mistake, I LOVE my Mustang GT... and would LOVE to get a GT500... but there's NO WAY 95% of the GT500 fans would EVER afford one. Ford's going to produce, what, 20,000 GT500's?!?! I've heard rumors that its going to actually sell for $70-80,000. COME ON! There's NO WAY I'd pay that much for a mustang. Anyone that would is nuts (and insanely rich).

So the selling price alone makes this car quasi-exotic and in the same price range as 911s, and more than a new Z06... which puts it in a class (at least with the Z06) that it can't be top dog - stock.

So, in the grand scheme of things, what's the point of having a MUSTANG (an average guy's muscle car) that the average guy will never afford?!?!

There is no point in it at all. Only the rich will own this car... the same people that can afford the Porsches, etc.

They've effectively taken a car that should be affordable to most, and made it unattainable because of its limited production... might as well druel over Ferrari's... same pipe-dream.

Dodge did do it right with their SRT lineup... they're building enough of these cars to limit dealer markups and eventually, for all intents and purposes, eliminate the markups.

So, what it comes down to is, if you want a 400hp American muscle car, but don't want to/can't spend over $45,000 (including markup), you'll only have one brand: Dodge... who'll offer the Charger SRT8, Challenger SRT8 (if produced) & Jeep GC SRT8 (SUV obviously). Sure, there are places that are marking these cars up to the roof, but in other areas, they're selling at MSRP.
You are soo misinformed again,its not even funny...and you listen to,...too many rumors! Shelby GT500 is the only way to go(I'm getting mine for MSRP,...the other cars you mention,..except maybe the challenger,...are all ugly 4 dr. family sedans....NO Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
VenomSnake said:
You are soo misinformed again,its not even funny...and you listen to,...too many rumors! Shelby GT500 is the only way to go(I'm getting mine for MSRP,...the other cars you mention,..except maybe the challenger,...are all ugly 4 dr. family sedans....NO Thanks!
You're getting yours at MSRP? Where?

I'm not arguing that the GT500 is awesome... but unless the dealer markup rumors are false, I stand my ground on the issue.

Ford should produce this car in quantity... and make a killing off of it in the process... they are hurting for cash, no?!?!

BTW: in what ways am I misinformed from the post we're discussing herein?!?! About MSRP? I'd need to see a verifiable receipt to believe it. Plus, if you can prove it, HOOK ME UP, damnit!

***You work for Ford, though, don't you?!?!*** That would change YOUR perspective on pricing.
 
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