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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I will soon know for there is only 2 things it can be.......jmo....


1.VCT phasers
or
2.Valve lash adjusters

That is as long as the oil and filter are of the right spec and clean....

I need to find out if the 05 -5.4L 3v Eng has the same p/n as the 07/08 5.4L 4v Eng for the 2 parts listed above...

The o5 5.4L 3v p/n.......are....

VCT phasers.....3R2Z-6A257-DA
and
Lash adjusters.......5L1Z-6500-AA
Now I just need the 07/08 p/n's and if there the same .....the answer is pretty clear......

So if anyone can pull up this info I would be grateful....

Dave.
 

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What??

A tick?

Will you be posting videos of it like Grabber?

:(
 

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I will soon know for there is only 2 things it can be.......jmo....


1.VCT phasers
or
2.Valve lash adjusters

That is as long as the oil and filter are of the right spec and clean....

I need to find out if the 05 -5.4L 3v Eng has the same p/n as the 07/08 5.4L 4v Eng for the 2 parts listed above...

The o5 5.4L 3v p/n.......are....

VCT phasers.....3R2Z-6A257-DA
and
Lash adjusters.......5L1Z-6500-AA
Now I just need the 07/08 p/n's and if there the same .....the answer is pretty clear......

So if anyone can pull up this info I would be grateful....

Dave.
Dave, just FYI there was a guy who had is valve lash adjusters replaced and his noise did not go away.
 

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I will soon know for there is only 2 things it can be.......jmo....


1.VCT phasers
or
2.Valve lash adjusters

That is as long as the oil and filter are of the right spec and clean....

I need to find out if the 05 -5.4L 3v Eng has the same p/n as the 07/08 5.4L 4v Eng for the 2 parts listed above...

The o5 5.4L 3v p/n.......are....

VCT phasers.....3R2Z-6A257-DA
and
Lash adjusters.......5L1Z-6500-AA
Now I just need the 07/08 p/n's and if there the same .....the answer is pretty clear......

So if anyone can pull up this info I would be grateful....

Dave.
Dave,

Valve lash adjusters p/n 6C501

VCT? I can't find it....do our engines have variable cam timing? Am I missing something?

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Dave,

Valve lash adjusters p/n 6C501

VCT? I can't find it....do our engines have variable cam timing? Am I missing something?

Dave
Thanks dave for the P/N.....I am on a mission now! More info and good reading this guy knows his stuff...as for the VLA p/n's are not the same so...I will look at this more...And for the VCT...not sure yet but I cant see why we would not have them..I will look into this more also..
My first line of biz will be to remove the Wix filter and replace with the FR type..........att is more ....................



QUOTE (stevee97 @ Mar 15 2008, 10:39 PM)
Yes that is if the engine is not getting starved of oil at the top end??? That is what I think is going on if it isn't lifters not pumping up. I think Ford knows exactly what it is but not sure of a cheap way to fix. Head in the sand. I think a Corvette would be the quickest fix.

Thats why we need to use the right oil filter......This is the recomended filter...motorcraft FL820S or Ford Racing CM6731-FL820
this filter can flow as much as 50% more oil than aftermarket type...I have a Wix on it but it will be off this week and FR CM6731-FL820 will replace it.Thats the first thing I will do...also.read this .

...........................................

Thank you AB for your fast and in depth reply..I to am now thinking it may be as simple as the oil filter[ at least for me ] if the flow rate is that much more.
I have the Ford Motor craft 5w50 as specified however I have a wix oil filter installed and I can understand the flow and aeration of the oil and do agree that this would create a noisy valve train[more so lifter efficiency problems]but why just The DR side and only the rear cyl.....

The only thing that I can see is that cyl runs hotter than all the rest.
I see a pat here for most [if not all] that have this noise said it's at the same location,The only differences is how loud and the temp but all seam to be DR side bank...weird...

I run 93 oct and a boost addtive...always.

As for a poss rod bearing....I feel strongly that this not the prob...the tick is to high up...Oh and it got louder after the long tube headers went on...
The sound is just like valve clap but this is a new eng...I have heard some that were so loud I thought the car was out of oil....and mine is just a little over an acceptable sound level if only ALL cyl and or was even through the Eng,but it's not....
I may not fix yet,however I must know why and what it is so I know how hard I can drive the car for I don't need to trash it!!!!

Again Thank you!
Dave..Aka BB.

Hi Dave, back from my test comparison and here's what I can offer. First I had to establish my baseline (before) and ops check (after). My GT500 at idle sounds like a orchrestra pit tuning in before the big show. Busy under that hood. I started by listening to each bank with my stethoscope on each valve cover cam bolt. If you look at your valve covers, you'll see 8 bolt heads (the last one couples as a clamp and has a nut sharing the head of the bolt). It is the best point of contact to listen in on your valving tapping away. With a long enough probe, you can reach all of them. RESULT: Noise tapping "tick" is louder towards the front, and most noticeable on the exhaust side. If you look at your valve cover, you'll see 4 bolts on top (intake side) and 4 bolts on the bottom (exhaust side). I can only concluded with long tube headers, could amplify an already existing tappet tone. What caught my attention with the fuel rail noise. Boy was that a busy and noise "tick", however, this was constant and rhythemic pulse as it should be. I noticed I had the defroster on as the A/C clutch compressor kick in and quickly turned it off. Directly behind the Electrical Generator under your air cleaner is a shiny box, which is actually the oil cooler Item 26, P/N 6A642 in the service manual and it literally cools your oil externally. Once I saw the spagetti of tubing leading in and out of the oil cooler I knew this was set up for some serious racing . With that said, your oil choice is critical (I forgot to mention earlier which type: Motorcraft SAE 5w-50 FULL SYNTHETIC Motor Oil XO-5W50-QGT or it can be order using Fords part number WSS-M2C9331-A) and the filter I perfer is Ford Racing CM-6731-FL820 (which replaces ford's factory Motorcraft FL-820S, which is also a good filter). I would immediate dump that WIX filter. You'll notice a difference in quality as soon as you pull it out of the box. A blue contact seal, much heavier than stock, clearly see the relief valve (which is tuned to you car), unlike a WIX that might be relief set at all 5.4 L to include Triton trucks. Ok, back on topic. Listening in on the oil cooling system was quite. Next, time to listen in at the front of the valve cover (use your engine builders stamping plaque as a reference point) is a perfect spot to spy on both valve chain noises (long run to the crank and a short, secondary chain shared by both cam shafts) and I was surprise to hear a smooth very low tone roar. So ford did a great job, calming that long run of bicycle chain. I listened just above the valve cover, but below the intake runner where they meet (a little shiny aluminium ridge) for "hydraulic lash adjuster (p/n 6C501) 32 total" noise, (page. 303-01C-1) under the "In-Vehicle Repair section of the manual, for 5.4L (4V) Shelby and I would hear tapping at times and not at other times. More noticeable over the center cylinders on the left (driver's side). I listened in on the ends of the supercharger pulley (careful you don't pull yourself in), power steering body for howling (common with ford), oil pan (for knock rods), nada. Everything was normal. Then I drove it like I stole it. Pulled over and other than the cooling fan kicking in hard and heavy, it was the same. I was trying to find the Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) of past "noise tick problems" on other forum sites that I read and saw it here with the yellow helmet picture posting. Good job on pulling in that .pdf, I'm not as computer savvy. If you read his post, NOTE under prechecks paragraph 5. the filter issue and paragraph 6. It states 5W-20 Premium Synthetic. This is ok for GT but not of SHELBYs. Use the part number above and consult with Ford Racing technical support. This oil has to travel all over that engine under pressure and static distribution (slung by the cranks own pendulum). I'll add one experience in my younger engine troubleshooting days. I had a Ford 150 which had a oil pick up crack at the bend of the tube causing the oil to foam and it too had a very bad knock, but the driver continued on until she spun a few bearings. Moral of the story, oil...oil...oil. Your dipstick will talk to you. Make sure it's clean and no bubbles. Not to full, but not empty (about 6 and a half quarts). I changed my oil at 500, 3500, and I have 3875 on it now with no difference in the tap. I was kinda wonder why the exhaust mod? Are they ford tubes or after market? Are they tuned short headers? Do you have a H-pipe or X-pipe? Are the factory mufflers on or off? If you've increase the flow dynamics in your exhaust stream without reprogramming your computer to compensate of the change, there could (and possibly be) valve damage. Again, I apologize for the long reply. Oh and lose the additive. Pump gas (especially in the winter) adds something so you'll be protected there, but octane booster don't do much. Professional racers know where the good gas is. As for now I've been advised, skip BP in it's entirety and stay with Mobil. So far, my pro-buddy and friend is right on target. Hope this works for you.

Airborne
....................................

Ok the wix is the first thing to go..The oil is the ford full syn and is the 5w50...I am in the proses of changing the fuel rails so the blower is off at this time...As for mods ..AR long tube,race cats 3"x pipe,3" to the rear with Bassani race axle back,KB 2.8h stage 3 with 3" upper pulley and 10% over drive innovators west lower pulley/damp,4:10s with the new Eaton center in the rear this is just some of the mods Oh the tune was done at Evo buy Jon lund so I know that is good too..I run with 18+boost so thats why the additve....I changed the oil @ 500..1200..2200 and2225...I have 3600 on th car now.....dont ask...I will change on 3500 mi intervals from now on..
sounds like yours is nice and tight... what do you think ...could the VCT phasers or the lash adjusters make this noise???
If it's not the filter I think I will look at the VCT phasers do to the case it is only noisy when hot...Your thoughts????

Dave.



There you have it..............are your eyes sore yet????there is more if you like..:)


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Sorry BB... but I HATE ticks!! They give me the heebee-jeebees!!

 

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Actually.... what are ya doing with "phasers" too?? Building your own warp drive??

 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
OK more info........
Dave your right the 5.4 4v has NO VCT sys so thats out....I cut this out from U know where....

BB500, your getting some good tips here and I've read through all of the 07 Service Manual to clear up a few things. One Engine Type and Size. I've seen Valve phaser? Hydraulic Lash Adjuster....etc. Here's what I've seen so far for a 2007 Shelby GT 500, 5.4 L (4V). Key point, 4 valve. The 3V is set up differently and was offered for Ford trucks. The cylinder heads on this GT 500 come right off the Ford GT and is a very simple set up.

Item Part Number Description
1 6C501 Hydraulic lash adjuster (32 required)
2 6529 Camshaft roller follower (32 required)
3 6518 Valve spring retainer key (64 required)
4 6514 Valve spring retainer (32 required)
5 6513 Valve spring (32 required)
6 6A517 Valve seal (32 required)

That's it'

if your looking at the 4.6/5.4 L (3V) then you have this:
Item Part Number Description
1 N807834 Camshaft bearing cap bolt (10 required)
2 6B284 Camshaft front bearing cap
3 6B280 Camshaft bearing cap (4 required)
4 6C255 LH/ 6251 RH Camshaft
5 6529 Camshaft roller follower (12 required)
6 6518 Valve spring retainer key (24 required)
7 6514 Valve spring retainer (12 required)
8 6513 Valve spring (12 required)
9 6A517 Valve seal (12 required)
10 6C501 Hydraulic lash adjuster (12 required)
11 6279 Camshaft phaser and sprocket bolt
12 6C524 Camshaft phaser and sprocket

Not sure what "phaser" you're referring to. The GT 500 valve component exploded view show no phaser parts, making the oil type (50 weight, not 20 weight) crucial towards ensuring the Hydraulic Lash adjuster are doing their job. phr3121 TSB posting are excellent reference, but keep in mind, they are for 3V heads. I haven't been able to find any TSB on the Shelbys. Maybe because we to proud to initiate one against the car. Dealers are quick to fix (usually) vs. a black eye on their pride and joy seller. You're probably not going to get much warranty support after all to the mods. Personally, I think the normal car is too much "car" for the average dealer. You'll be pressed to find someone IDS certified, they do however network knowledge by consulting one another drawing conclusions based on a stock configuration. If you get a dealer who troubleshoots "in-house" without upchanneling the problem, look for another dealer. At present, your car is above their capabilities so you're on your own. Go to the HELM web site, order the Service Manual and service link in disk form. Rotunda sells the tools (expensive) and routinely check the NHTSA website for Shelby specific TSBs or call your dealer for any new update TSB. (This will probably be non-existent...remember too proud to dime out a Shelby). Your only great source of info so far will be this site and all of our experiences. I'll stay tuned as long as this site stays up.

Airborne



Dave, I don't think the 4Vs have the VCT-pahsers (just the 3Vs).

Airborne, great write-up(s) ...thanks. Got me to do some thinking. I do agree the Wix could be starving the oil supply a bit but hard to know. Still the 820S or, even better, the FRP..820 seem like the best filter choice -- both have the latest drai-back silicone valves too.

Dave, I've been followig this thread but haven't posted because Airborne' sinsights are right on. I am at a loss for how to better locate the source (beyond stethescope) without going inside. Lackig an oil-supply problem of some sort, the only thing I can see that would produce that tic, and do it/vary the way it does (only after warm, etc), would be some defect or dirt in the bleed-down valve in the hydraulic lash adjuster (HLA). I think if it was wrist-pin/rod-journal it would not sound like a tic (would be blunter and more consistent, imo). It's also possible a cam lobe/finger-follower is wiped (not familiar with OHC sounds tho), and causing the hydraulic-lash adjuster to top-out (not sure how much over-shoot they have designed). If you open it you may be able to inspect the cam<->follower contact point for wear that's inconsistent with other cylinders without having to remove anything ...just by cranking the engine with the coils/spark off(?) if the lash-adjuster will push down a bit.

Which leads to another thought, Dave... you may be able to tell if the bleed down valve in either of the HLAs is flaky on the rear cylinder without pulling it or using a bleed-down tester by artificially presurizing the oil gallery somehow (I think racers pre-presssurize, but not sure how -- possibly thru a pump that uses the filter interface as PJ used to do 40 years ago(?) --dunno) and the HLA should come-up to 'attention' almost immediately and take the lash to zero. If you turn off the pressure and press on each finger-follower and compare the bleed-down feel/time to other cylinders you might be able to make a determination if something is 'different' -- dunno. If a HLA bleed-down valve is not right, it should drop down either quickly (fast-bleed, seal damamge) or more slowly (clogged -- maybe less likely on such a new engine, but possible) when pressure is removed. I imagine the only correct way to test them is to remove them, etc, but that means pulling the cams, etc.

That's about all I can think of. If you're probing with a steth, also listen to other areas around that cylinder where you think it should NOT tick ..e.g. down lower on the cam cover 'side' ...even on the side of the block and compare to other cylinders. If you hear the tic on that cylinder where it should NOT be, then it may not be a valvetrain tic.

Good luck ..hope you can grab a lead on it somehow... -Dan

--
Phr.. thanks for kind words ;-)



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Airborne4162





I appreciate the kind words. If you haven't guess it, I'm a retired aircraft mechanic. Like they use to teach us in the military, "there aren't any gas stations in the sky, so you better fix it right..." not to mention if we didn't and it cause a loss of life or property, we'd be looking at 2 years in Levenworth. On our off days, we (mechanics) built extremely hot cars. Bringing in aircraft technology onto a Pinto was wild stuff. I blew up my 72 Vega and it was beyond fun. Although I'm alittle physically damaged due to one war to many, I still like to think I'm young. Some of you out there can relate. Todays cars powerplant might change alittle, but they all suck, queeze, bang and blow...that's the way an engine goes. At least that's how they taught us in tech school. I'll check out your link and that AN (Army Navy) anodize fitting for what I think was an oil drain system?

Airborne all the way...

This post has been edited by Airborne4162: Today, 07:58 PM


Thanks all for the help and the education with this for I do nothing before I learn first..With that said I do feel the root of this is the filter and thats an easy fix provided I did no damage to the Eng. 2ND I now know that we [5.4 4v ]have no VCT sys so thats out.So that leaves only HLA and someone has already replaced them and the prob is still there witch leads me back to the oil filter and oil.....
The tick that I have was there before the mods and aft..but others on this site have been chasing this tick and theres is worse than mine,
much worse and this is why I am recruiting the knowledge of others and will share with others and on other sites.
AB... I think your right on with the lets not put a black spot on there prestiges Shelby name...JMO..But there is the trans issue that they just do an R+R and there is still no TSB on it ...... they just call the hot line and then they send the trans/clutch out.....Hummmmmmmmmm...
Again,Thank you all for the time you have in this and it will not go to waste..Oh, I too am an A&P..........No war's under my belt though but I thank you and others that do...

AB and 68.....You guy's know your stuff ....
PHR.....You do know were to look....
And John that vid site was a great help...

Dave.

This post has been edited by BADBOY500: Today, 08:28 PM


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2007 GT 500
Torch red with satin silver stripes
Interior up grade
Born on date 6/20/06
Some mod's........he..he..
 

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The video links above do not work.
 

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...is she gone yet?
 

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