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Discussion Starter #1
I'm surprised no one here started this thread (unless I missed it). So here is my prediction, and granted I am NOT a fan of the 2020 GT500
The new C8 will force Ford to do a come to Jesus on their thinking around the 2020 GT500.

  • The C8 is pricing at $55,000 - $60,000
  • It will be about as fast as the GT500 0-60 for about $20k-$40K less
  • It will handle better
  • they will come out with some type of "Z" package within 6 months and that package will probable be in the $85,000 range
  • that "Z" package will crush the GT500
The whole idea of a mustang GT500 was for it to have supercar performance on a budget. They now have changed that business model. The GT500 is more expensing than the Corvette for the first time. More expensing than the Hellcat and RedEye. When the 2007-2014 GT500 were new, they were more powerful than a same year Camaro, Corvette or Challenger. They have messed with that formula and I predict it will be reflected in sales. Hopped up mustang for $80k-$100k or true mid engine supercar for $60k
 

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The whole idea of a mustang GT500 was for it to have supercar performance on a budget. They now have changed that business model. The GT500 is more expensing than the Corvette for the first time.
There is a thread on the C8 in this section where I moved your thread. See link below.

While I admit the C8 is a lot of car for the $, it will not force Ford to change their thinking or their business model. They will continue to sell a ton of Mustangs and every last GT500 that rolls off the line.

You also state that the Vette is now cheaper than the GT500. You are ignoring the cheaper versions of the Mustang when comparing a base Vette to the halo Mustang.

Other thread:

 

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Strange that Chevrolet moves the Corvette's engine from the front to the rear for the C8, and people all of a sudden start comparing its performance/value in relation to the GT500, when in-fact all of the same arguments existed with the C7, and before that with the C6, etc...

Other than going from front-engine to mid-engine, nothing else has changed... So why will Ford have to come to Jesus NOW, as opposed to years ago?

Corvettes nibble-away at halo-Mustang sales, and GT350's and GT500's nibble-away at Corvette sales.

But in the end, it's a matter of which car do you want, regardless of the stat sheets and spec sheets, because none of those sheets speak towards what it's like to live day-in and day-out with a specific car. As a alluded to in my recent post in the other thread...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Strange that Chevrolet moves the Corvette's engine from the front to the rear for the C8, and people all of a sudden start comparing its performance/value in relation to the GT500, when in-fact all of the same arguments existed with the C7, and before that with the C6, etc...

Other than going from front-engine to mid-engine, nothing else has changed... So why will Ford have to come to Jesus NOW, as opposed to years ago?

Corvettes nibble-away at halo-Mustang sales, and GT350's and GT500's nibble-away at Corvette sales.

But in the end, it's a matter of which car do you want, regardless of the stat sheets and spec sheets, because none of those sheets speak towards what it's like to live day-in and day-out with a specific car. As a alluded to in my recent post in the other thread...
Because moving the engine to the new location will radically alter the performance. It already has. The fastest base model Vette ever. It will be the best handling base model vette ever as well. And when they come out with the "Z" or "Zo" packages it will be even faster
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There is a thread on the C8 in this section where I moved your thread. See link below.

While I admit the C8 is a lot of car for the $, it will not force Ford to change their thinking or their business model. They will continue to sell a ton of Mustangs and every last GT500 that rolls off the line.

You also state that the Vette is now cheaper than the GT500. You are ignoring the cheaper versions of the Mustang when comparing a base Vette to the halo Mustang.

Other thread:

I have $1 on a bet that the GT500 sales slump and they make a limited amount (which is why they will sell every last one). Now prove me wrong ;)
 

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I have $1 on a bet that the GT500 sales slump and they make a limited amount (which is why they will sell every last one). Now prove me wrong ;)
While there may be a few customers that move laterally to either the Vette or the GT500, I think the bulk of the customer base is either a “Mustang person” or a “Vette person.” Ford is making 5000 2020 GT500s with no announcement on subsequent year plans. Only time will tell regarding 2021+ GT500 sales, but the 2020 model is selling out quickly. Ford will sell all of them.
 

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Because moving the engine to the new location will radically alter the performance. It already has. The fastest base model Vette ever. It will be the best handling base model vette ever as well. And when they come out with the "Z" or "Zo" packages it will be even faster
Since the 70's oil-crisis/smog-nonsense, every new Corvette (C4, C5, C6, C7, C8) has been the "faster and better handling" than the one it replaced. Nothing new to see here. Same story, different generation.

As for being better-handling, that we shall see as to "how-much" better handling. Front engined Corvettes have whipped-up plenty on mid-engined Ferraris and rear-engined Porsches over the past couple decades, and front engine Corvettes pretty much had a 50/50 weight distribution anyhow, by virtue of putting the tranny in the rear. Chevrolet had that layout dialed-in.

The real thing that mid-engine layout really enhances is steering-feel and perceived agility, and handling-rotation. But Chevrolet really wrung the snot out of handling-capability on the C7. If the C8 is "better" in corners, I predict it will be INCREMENTAL, because the C7's were already balanced and producing crazy skidpad stats..

But anyhow, wait on the instrumented magazine tests. The new C8 will handle "slightly better" than the C7, just as the C7 handled slightly better than the C6, and so-on..
 

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I have $1 on a bet that the GT500 sales slump and they make a limited amount (which is why they will sell every last one). Now prove me wrong ;)
First off, of course they're making a limited amount, as every single SVT vehicle since 1993 has been limited. So your point is??

"Sales slump" on 2020 GT500's?? LOL... That's just funny right there. Funny stuff..
 

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Sales slump" on 2020 GT500's?? LOL... That's just funny right there. Funny stuff..
Yes! Today I sent a friend to a backup dealer I had that told me they’d sell at MSRP a month or two ago (they were awaiting an allocation at the time). He was told that the dealer has been offered $10k over MSRP by a couple customers. The demand is strong for the new Shelby. There are more buyers than cars available.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
First off, of course they're making a limited amount, as every single SVT vehicle since 1993 has been limited. So your point is??

"Sales slump" on 2020 GT500's?? LOL... That's just funny right there. Funny stuff..

Take away cut to the Chase... the Corvette will hurt GT500 sales, resale and Dealer markup potential as demand will be lower. Now you do understand that right?
 

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Take away cut to the Chase... the Corvette will hurt GT500 sales, resale and Dealer markup potential as demand will be lower. Now you do understand that right?
Before the announcement of the C8, it was predicted by many that sales would be 100% of supply for the 2020 GT500. That has not changed. Dealer markups and resale values are not variables in the sales figure game.

X sold/y made is the simple math. Profit to Ford is the same regardless of dealer markup, same for resale values.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Before the announcement of the C8, it was predicted by many that sales would be 100% of supply for the 2020 GT500. That has not changed. Dealer markups and resale values are not variables in the sales figure game.

X sold/y made is the simple math. Profit to Ford is the same regardless of dealer markup, same for resale values.
Maybe it's a regional thing? Here in NY lots of Ford dealers have a GT350's sitting in the showroom. Doesn't seem that many people want them around here. They are still asking for over MSRP, and people are not biting. So I predict that after the initial year of "newness" for the GT500, it would be much the same in this area. Most here say they would rather go HellCat than GT350, and initial reaction was "no way" to a $80++ GT500. Maybe different in other places but of all the people that we know and hang out with around here who are 'car guys' and buy performance cars, no one is interested in the GT500 or the existing GT350. In the case of the 350 they would rather buy a base GT and modify it themselves. In the case of the GT500 they would rather go Mopar or Audi/GTR or other. A few dealers also have Bullitt mustangs. Some thing. No one is really tripping over anyone to buy them. And this is on Long Island... so plenty of available cash.
 

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Lots of people feel the same way. Ford lost me on the GT500 with just about everything besides looks, I think the new Mustang looks good. Everything else is a huge meh for me including the price and their silly dealer allocations.

The Ford GT is a gigantic disappointment and a huge missed opportunity. Why couldn't they make 10,000 of these and sold them for $100,000 each? 1 billion not worth while to them? Make a super duper Carbon Fiber Track star for 400k or whatever but a lesser street version for us non track stars. Also why doesn't that car have the VOODOO engine in it or any V8 for that matter? The list goes on but oh well, we now have some excitement from the General, Mid engine car, super cruise cars, twin turbo V8's! All for attainable costs. I predict Ford is going to be in a heap of trouble due to mismanagement and misjudging the market but time will tell.
 

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Maybe it's a regional thing? Here in NY lots of Ford dealers have a GT350's sitting in the showroom. Doesn't seem that many people want them around here. They are still asking for over MSRP, and people are not biting. So I predict that after the initial year of "newness" for the GT500, it would be much the same in this area. Most here say they would rather go HellCat than GT350, and initial reaction was "no way" to a $80++ GT500. Maybe different in other places but of all the people that we know and hang out with around here who are 'car guys' and buy performance cars, no one is interested in the GT500 or the existing GT350. In the case of the 350 they would rather buy a base GT and modify it themselves. In the case of the GT500 they would rather go Mopar or Audi/GTR or other. A few dealers also have Bullitt mustangs. Some thing. No one is really tripping over anyone to buy them. And this is on Long Island... so plenty of available cash.
You are forgetting or ignoring the fact that the GT350 is in it's 5th year of production. After 5 years they are still getting ADM's, if people were not willing to pay these exorbitant fees, the dealers would not have them.
This is the first year for the new GT500.
 

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Maybe it's a regional thing? Here in NY lots of Ford dealers have a GT350's sitting in the showroom. Doesn't seem that many people want them around here. They are still asking for over MSRP, and people are not biting.
In all fairness, the GT350 is approaching its fourth year of production? And it's a fairly specialized car, a corner-carving track special.. Not sure how much you could enjoy a GT350 on Long Island.

If Ford had run the 2013 GT500 for four years without changing much, they would also become relative "lot lizards", because the market for these types of cars is so SLIM, you get to a point where everyone who really wanted one... Has one... And dealers start having a tough time finding willing buyers.

Same goes for Hellcats... My local dealer's had the same pair collecting dust for months now. You get to a point of saturation, as it's a small sliver of us people who are hell-bent to spend big money on a 700+ horsepower variant of a car that also exists in rental fleets with 6-bangers under the hood. Such is the pony car market, and reality. It's not just Shelbys... And once a Corvette platform begins to age (3-4 years plus), those also tend to spend plenty of time on the lot looking for a good home, usually at discounted selling prices with factory incentives.

Your painting a picture that all of the Big-3 face regularly. Not just Ford. So I'm not entirely sure what point you're making in this..

So I predict that after the initial year of "newness" for the GT500, it would be much the same in this area. Most here say they would rather go HellCat than GT350, and initial reaction was "no way" to a $80++ GT500. Maybe different in other places but of all the people that we know and hang out with around here who are 'car guys' and buy performance cars, no one is interested in the GT500 or the existing GT350. In the case of the 350 they would rather buy a base GT and modify it themselves. In the case of the GT500 they would rather go Mopar or Audi/GTR or other. A few dealers also have Bullitt mustangs. Some thing. No one is really tripping over anyone to buy them. And this is on Long Island... so plenty of available cash.
Unless you work for Gallup or SurveyMonkey, how would you ever know enough people to make a valid conclusion as to public-sentiment?.. Not to mention I've never, ever, seen a Mopar/Hellcat guy say "I'm looking at the new Audi" or "the new GTR's".. That would be like a Hell's Angel shopping the latest offerings from BMW and Yamaha! LOL..

We've all been guilty of bench-racing here on the forum.. Right now, with the talk of the C8 and how it may or may-not affect GT500 sales, I think we're really getting deep off the edge of the cliff with bench-sales-prognosticating.
 
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