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As many of you know I bought my highly modified 2009 Shelby GT500 from Texas 3 and a half years ago. I flew to Texas, test drove it and had it shipped to SoCal. It ran great for 2 months and then one day my failsafe engine mode light came on and after that it came on periodically. Then more and more and more but no CEL's so I didn't worry to much about it. Then one day, maybe a few months later, I got my first CEL. It was a P0171 and P0174 which were for running lean.

This is where I need to mention that I had stock 47# injectors, a 2.9 Whipple S/C with the Crusher inlet, a 123mm Whipple Mono Blade throttle body, a Fore triple pump returnless fuel system with the upgraded fuel lines, fuel filter and Fore fuel rails (supposedly good for 1,200 HP) a ZONE 5 Performance MDM to run the returnless fuel system and 19 lbs. of boost running 730 RWHP and 711 RWTQ. It never, ever, ever, ever threw a CEL at WOT and it pulled like a freight train. Did I mention never? It only threw a CEL at lower engine speeds and because of this I never worried too much about it.

At one point I had mentioned that I was running stock 47# fuel injectors on this forum and some members here suggested getting larger ones because of my mods while yet others did not know why my engine was still together. Well I finally bought a set of ID 1050X injectors, installed them and had my Shelby towed to my tuner for a custom tune.

Now here's where my situation gets interesting. I already have an SCT 4 programmer which I always leave in my glove box and I had mentioned to my tuner, who is a well known and respected tuner in SoCal., about the Whipple Mono Blade throttle body and they said no problem. I have heard stories about tuning with a Mono Blade in that it can be difficult to get it right. We can do it they said. Fine. My car was there for 4 days. Ok fine. I want it right. Within that time frame I called periodically to see how my car was coming along. Well, turns out, they cannot tune it with the SCT programmer. What? You told me you could. Well, they could not, even after calling SCT. Something to do with living in this Sh*thole state known as CA. or so they said. I even gave them my sisters address in MA., but no deal. Ok so now they have to go with HP tuners, but I have to buy a couple of HP credits at $60 each and I have no programmer to store my new tune on, just in case. Ok fine.

On a side note: I called another well known tuner afterwards and explained my situation to him and he said no problem. They do tunes all the time with the SCT programmer and the Mono Blade throttle body. Go figure. Who's BS should one believe anymore?

Four days later my car is done.

Mind you I picked it up on day 4 which was a Saturday and they don't reopen until Tuesday.

1) When I first started it, it stalled and it was stumbling/hesitating when revved a little in neutral. Almost I did not take it, but then I decided to give it a shot figuring maybe it needed a little time for the PCM to adjust to it or make adjustments.
2) When I took off in first and gave it a little gas it also stumbled/hesitated before going.
3) Idle was a little high at 1,050 RPM's or so.
4) When I shifted I noticed it was hanging around 3,500-4,000 for a few seconds before returning to normal which caused slipping of the clutch when letting the pedal out.
5) When it was started in the morning when it was cold it did not rev up somewhat and then idle down as it warmed up. It would barely run and then idle up after a few seconds.
6) I felt a loss of power as opposed to my 47# injectors, although not drastic, but they said I gained 49 HP from when they did the datalog last November at 717 RWHP and the Dyno sheet showed it, but something was off. I know my car.
7) Traction control kept kicking in whereas in my original tune it was disabled. What A PITA that is.
8) I never got another CEL for running lean, but I did get a couple for P1072 and P0175 was are for running rich.

After this I call them back to fix my car. It had to be there at 9:00 A.M. on the day I took it. What a crock of Sh*t. It sat there for 3 days before they even touched it. They supposedly worked on it over a period of 3 more days, on the dyno and road testing and they never called me to let me know what was going on after they said they would. At this point I had enough. I called them and told them not to touch my car anymore. I will be there in the morning to pick it up.

I picked my car up and nothing had changed except that the traction control was disabled. Luckily they gave me my money back and then they were supposed to come to my house to remove their tune which they never did. I kind of wish they had. The only downside was that I would have had to remove the S/C again and reinstall my 47# injectors. At this point I decided to drive my car and see if the PCM would relearn anything to make it run better. It didn't.

THEY SUSPECT MY MONO BLADE THROTTLE BODY IS TO BLAME FOR THEM NOT BEING ABLE TO TUNE MY CAR RIGHT.
I SAY THEN WHY WAS IT FINE BEFORE YOU GUYS TOUCHED IT. NOT PERFECT, BUT WAY, WAY BETTER.

Fast forward to last week. I disconnected the negative cable on the battery for 2 days. Don't ask me why I picked 2 days, but I did. Therefore 2 days later I reconnected the cable hoping that a KAM reset would change things. It started ok and I let it idle for 15 minutes without touching anything to let everything reset and then I shut it off. I then waited 2 more days and started it up. I let it run about a minute before trying to move it and when I started to drive it, it started puking, hacking, coughing, stutterring, idling extremely low and then shutting off. I'm like WTF? I had gone about 200 feet and in that distance I had to restart it at least 15 times and barely made it back to my garage to park it. I had smelled gasoline fumes in my engine bay about a week earlier but could find no leaks. I could also smell gas fumes inside my garage with the door open while it was trying to idle suggesting that it was running rich. It was. Here is what I found when I pulled the plugs and all 8 are exactly the same.

This extremely rich condition IS NOT throwing any CEL codes.


201534


201535





201536


201537



I reinstalled these same plugs until I can find out what's going on as I don't want to mess up a new set. So far I have checked all the fuses which were good and changed up some relays to no avail, cleaned the MAF sensor, checked all vacuum lines for deterioration or cracks, checked my CAI for possible air leakage, checked my air filter for being clogged and removed and checked all electrical connections that I could.

I have no gauges in my car other than the factory ones to check anything with.

Does anyone know what's going on or has anyone had this problem? Could it be an O2 sensor or fuel pressure regulator?
 

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One look at those plugs and I have to conclude these tooners are clueless. BJ probably won't touch your car because you're in CA, but perhaps he can give you the name of someone competent that will. Do you know who tuned the car before? I'd try and track them down and just update your previous tune for the injectors.
 

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.... BJ probably won't touch your car because you're in CA, but perhaps he can give you the name of someone competent ....
I didn't realize he was in Kommiefornia, but I'm near certain, BJ most likely will not touch that car !
But I would reach out to him, as John said he may recommend someone that Would help.
BJ previously has stated several times that due to cali laws and regulations he just is not willing to chance providing to cars in that state support, it is not worth the LEGAL cosequences .
 

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I’m no tuner, but I’ve seen plenty of mono blade throttle body problem threads through the years here. I personally would switch to a twin throttle body and get it retuned. If you really want to stick with your mono blade, I’m not sure who is willing to tune CA cars, but I have read threads from happy Lund customers with mono blade throttle bodies.
 

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If you really want to stick with your mono blade, I’m not sure who is willing to tune CA cars, but I have read threads from happy Lund customers with mono blade throttle bodies.
Since there are so many tunes out there with no changes in TB parameters, you'd be surprised just how well one runs that's tuned for the additional air flow. If you really need a big mono for the extra 20 hp on the very top end, that's cool, but I think anyone that spends most of their time on the street are giving up better manners in stop and go traffic. I've got 3 mono's if I even need those extra ponies.
 

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I was having these same problems when I installed my "beginner pack." If your lean due to a vac leak, start looking from the TB back. I took off my CAI and taped up the inlet side of the TB really well. Then I disconnected the brake booster vac line and blew into it. I found that the TB was leaking air from the outlet side where it mounts to the planum, even though I installed a brand new gasket. I just added a small bead of grey rtv right around the outer edge of the gasket. I also noticed it was leaking air from where the throttle positioner/DC motor are located (not the TPS), I took that apart and added a TINY bead of grey rtv to that gasket as well. While apart I verified that the return spring was correctly installed. That should be at 220° counterclockwise (tighten the spring). Put it all back together and voila, no leaks and no more lean.

Initially when I told Lund that i was lean, they sent me a new tune and after installing the tune, I went to SUPER rich and immediately turned off the car. It sounded and felt like it had a MASSIVE cam and didnt want to stay running. After fixing the leak, we got the correct tune mapped and dialed it in. It's working well now.

I'm in Vista, CA, so I know Lund will tune you. They can do remote tuning, but they also have a licensed Lund tech out at Whipple Superchargers in Fresno where they can dyno tune you. I know it's a trip, but Lund will get you straight.

Good luck brother.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
One look at those plugs and I have to conclude these tooners are clueless. BJ probably won't touch your car because you're in CA, but perhaps he can give you the name of someone competent that will. Do you know who tuned the car before? I'd try and track them down and just update your previous tune for the injectors.
I had checked my plugs after the tune and they were orangish brown which I thought was normal do to the unleaded gas. This happened all of a sudden with no warning. This is why I thought some component had gone bad or failed in some way. I will call BJ and see if he can help or Lund. Maybe I'll just try and go with Lund since I have the HP tune on it already. The previous tuner was in Texas. It was PSI Motorsports. The tuner's name was Patrick. I had called him after I got my first failsafe engine mode light and he would not/could not do anything for me because of where I live. And I do not even have their old tune because the seller could not find his SCT programmer at the time.

Also the Mono Blade was on my car when I bought it and it always pulled like a freight train until this last tune.

I didn't realize he was in , but I'm near certain, BJ most likely will not touch that car !
But I would reach out to him, as John said he may recommend someone that Would help.
BJ previously has stated several times that due to cali laws and regulations he just is not willing to chance providing to cars in that state support, it is not worth the LEGAL cosequences .
Kommiefornia. The one and only. This state is a joke in more ways than one.

What plugs are you running and what's the gap set at?
I am running BR7EF set at .032"

Call @VNMOUS1 at Venomous Tuning
He's going to be one of your best bets on remotely problem solving your issue.
I am in CA. so it is very unlikely.

I’m no tuner, but I’ve seen plenty of mono blade throttle body problem threads through the years here. I personally would switch to a twin throttle body and get it retuned. If you really want to stick with your mono blade, I’m not sure who is willing to tune CA cars, but I have read threads from happy Lund customers with mono blade throttle bodies.
I really would like to keep it, but like John said about driveability issues. That is probably why I kept getting failsafe engine mode lights. Other than that it acted fine.

Thank You all for your responses. They are really appreciated. I am going to mull it over and maybe see about a 67,68 or 69mm twin throttle body. Any preferences? I really don't want to lose any power if I can help it. Just too much fun.

Also I am going to see what BJ or Lund can do for me. At this point I have lost all confidence in tooners out here. I'm afraid that the next one will be just as bad.
 
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" It ran great for 2 months and then one day my failsafe engine mode light came on and after that it came on periodically. "
.
Based on this statement, I wouldn't blame it on the T/B..
.

 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I was having these same problems when I installed my "beginner pack." If your lean due to a vac leak, start looking from the TB back. I took off my CAI and taped up the inlet side of the TB really well. Then I disconnected the brake booster vac line and blew into it. I found that the TB was leaking air from the outlet side where it mounts to the planum, even though I installed a brand new gasket. I just added a small bead of grey rtv right around the outer edge of the gasket. I also noticed it was leaking air from where the throttle positioner/DC motor are located (not the TPS), I took that apart and added a TINY bead of grey rtv to that gasket as well. While apart I verified that the return spring was correctly installed. That should be at 220° counterclockwise (tighten the spring). Put it all back together and voila, no leaks and no more lean.

Initially when I told Lund that i was lean, they sent me a new tune and after installing the tune, I went to SUPER rich and immediately turned off the car. It sounded and felt like it had a MASSIVE cam and didnt want to stay running. After fixing the leak, we got the correct tune mapped and dialed it in. It's working well now.

I'm in Vista, CA, so I know Lund will tune you. They can do remote tuning, but they also have a licensed Lund tech out at Whipple Superchargers in Fresno where they can dyno tune you. I know it's a trip, but Lund will get you straight.

Good luck brother.
Thanks. I did several smoke tests on my engine and never found any smoke coming out except from the bottom of the bypass valve where the shaft is. I even did a couple with the S/C off to verify this. I then called Whipple and they told me that there is supposed to be a seal to actually seal the shaft so that there would be no leaks. Then I asked them about buying the seal and they had no answers for that. They asked me how the idle was and I said fine. Then they told me as long as it idles fine then don't worry about it. I think they were just grasping for straws because they could not come up with a justifiable answer and that there is no seal to begin with. Just think about the throttle shaft on any carburetor. No seals there and no problems either

I would like to take it to Fresno, but it's just not feasible for me, so I will maybe try a couple of different things like different throttle body and a new tune, but I trust no one to do a tune out here now. Maybe as you said with a Lund remote tune or as John said and ask BJ if he knows of a competent tuner.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
" It ran great for 2 months and then one day my failsafe engine mode light came on and after that it came on periodically. "
.
Based on this statement, I wouldn't blame it on the T/B..
.

I tend to agree, but I don't know enough about these high fillutin computerized cars to know what to look for most of the time, but I keep on trying to figure things out or ask for help. Put me back in the day sans computers and I could pretty much figure it out no problem.
 

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Thanks. I did several smoke tests on my engine and never found any smoke coming out except from the bottom of the bypass valve where the shaft is. I even did a couple with the S/C off to verify this. I then called Whipple and they told me that there is supposed to be a seal to actually seal the shaft so that there would be no leaks. Then I asked them about buying the seal and they had no answers for that. They asked me how the idle was and I said fine. Then they told me as long as it idles fine then don't worry about it. I think they were just grasping for straws because they could not come up with a justifiable answer and that there is no seal to begin with. Just think about the throttle shaft on any carburetor. No seals there and no problems either

I would like to take it to Fresno, but it's just not feasible for me, so I will maybe try a couple of different things like different throttle body and a new tune, but I trust no one to do a tune out here now. Maybe as you said with a Lund remote tune or as John said and ask BJ if he knows of a competent tuner.
I know, fresno is a bit of a haul. Theres a guy in oceanside you can try taking it to, John Smith at John Smith Racing. Yes, that's really his name. Lol! He is a Mustang specific shop and he has a racing team. They're off of Rancho Del Oro, by the VA Hospital. I've spoken with them before and their pricing doesnt seem outrageous.

I have Whipple's 68mm dual TB and I'm definitely not lacking in the power department. I've not gotten a chance to dyno yet, but hopefully soon. A venturing guess would say with all the mods I'm between 675whp and 700whp, but 700 may be a bit of an over estimate. The power pack says a max net gain of 100whp and the exhaust system is probably a 10% net gain.

I have the same plugs you do, but I'm gapped at 0.28, reccomended by Revan Racing. I called them and asked.

My mods are in my sig, to give you a reference.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I know, fresno is a bit of a haul. Theres a guy in oceanside you can try taking it to, John Smith at John Smith Racing. Yes, that's really his name. Lol! He is a Mustang specific shop and he has a racing team. They're off of Rancho Del Oro, by the VA Hospital. I've spoken with them before and their pricing doesnt seem outrageous.

I have Whipple's 68mm dual TB and I'm definitely not lacking in the power department. I've not gotten a chance to dyno yet, but hopefully soon. A venturing guess would say with all the mods I'm between 675whp and 700whp, but 700 may be a bit of an over estimate. The power pack says a max net gain of 100whp and the exhaust system is probably a 10% net gain.

I have the same plugs you do, but I'm gapped at 0.28, reccomended by Revan Racing. I called them and asked.

My mods are in my sig, to give you a reference.
Thanks for the info. I will give him a call. I didn't mention that I run a 3.0" pulley on that 2.9 Whipple. They come with a 3.250" one. Should be good for 20-30 or so HP. I am over 700 whp. My sig shows some of my mods. I have a 100 mile tow on my insurance and luckily if I go to John it is less than that because my car won't run very well at the moment.

Here is a true story. I used to work for Papermate in Santa Monica who at the time were owned by Gillette in So. Boston, MA. Now it's P&G. Well we had a plastic injection mold we were tweaking for a new pen design and the guy in charge of the project was an engineer named, I kid you not, Robin Hood. Yes his name was Robin Hood. They sent him out from So. Boston to get this project up and running. His parents must have really had a sense of humor.
 
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I had checked my plugs after the tune and they were orangish brown which I thought was normal do to the unleaded gas. This happened all of a sudden with no warning. This is why I thought some component had gone bad or failed in some way. I will call BJ and see if he can help or Lund. Maybe I'll just try and go with Lund since I have the HP tune on it already. The previous tuner was in Texas. It was PSI Motorsports. The tuner's name was Patrick. I had called him after I got my first failsafe engine mode light and he would not/could not do anything for me because of where I live. And I do not even have their old tune because the seller could not find his SCT programmer at the time.

Also the Mono Blade was on my car when I bought it and it always pulled like a freight train until this last tune.


Kommiefornia. The one and only. This state is a joke in more ways than one.


I am running BR7EF set at .032"


I am in CA. so it is very unlikely.


I really would like to keep it, but like John said about driveability issues. That is probably why I kept getting failsafe engine mode lights. Other than that it acted fine.

Thank You all for your responses. They are really appreciated. I am going to mull it over and maybe see about a 67,68 or 69mm twin throttle body. Any preferences? I really don't want to lose any power if I can help it. Just too much fun.

Also I am going to see what BJ or Lund can do for me. At this point I have lost all confidence in tooners out here. I'm afraid that the next one will be just as bad.
I had checked my plugs after the tune and they were orangish brown which I thought was normal do to the unleaded gas. This happened all of a sudden with no warning. This is why I thought some component had gone bad or failed in some way. I will call BJ and see if he can help or Lund. Maybe I'll just try and go with Lund since I have the HP tune on it already. The previous tuner was in Texas. It was PSI Motorsports. The tuner's name was Patrick. I had called him after I got my first failsafe engine mode light and he would not/could not do anything for me because of where I live. And I do not even have their old tune because the seller could not find his SCT programmer at the time.

Also the Mono Blade was on my car when I bought it and it always pulled like a freight train until this last tune.


Kommiefornia. The one and only. This state is a joke in more ways than one.


I am running BR7EF set at .032"


I am in CA. so it is very unlikely.


I really would like to keep it, but like John said about driveability issues. That is probably why I kept getting failsafe engine mode lights. Other than that it acted fine.

Thank You all for your responses. They are really appreciated. I am going to mull it over and maybe see about a 67,68 or 69mm twin throttle body. Any preferences? I really don't want to lose any power if I can help it. Just too much fun.

Also I am going to see what BJ or Lund can do for me. At this point I have lost all confidence in tooners out here. I'm afraid that the next one will be just as bad.
I ran NGK BR7EF in my 07 for almost a week and the car did not like them at all. That's a copper core plug. I had a lot of the same symptoms you're having minus the rich look of the plug. The car hesitated, minor backfiring and had a slight miss at a consistent idle and they were gapped at .032. I switched back to Motorcraft SP471's and problem solved for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #18

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Thanks for the info. I will give him a call. I didn't mention that I run a 3.0" pulley on that 2.9 Whipple. They come with a 3.250" one. Should be good for 20-30 or so HP. I am over 700 whp. My sig shows some of my mods. I have a 100 mile tow on my insurance and luckily if I go to John it is less than that because my car won't run very well at the moment.

Here is a true story. I used to work for Papermate in Santa Monica who at the time were owned by Gillette in So. Boston, MA. Now it's P&G. Well we had a plastic injection mold we were tweaking for a new pen design and the guy in charge of the project was an engineer named, I kid you not, Robin Hood. Yes his name was Robin Hood. They sent him out from So. Boston to get this project up and running. His parents must have really had a sense of humor.
So, if were giving funny name stories, I work with a guy who's wife just got pregnant. I asked him what he was going to name his son and hes says Tucker. I asked why he already hates his son? He says "why?" I said "think about the name, first and last." He says "ohhhhh, sh*t!" My buddies name last name is Dickson, which would make his son Tucker Dickson. He went with Grayson... lol!
 
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Discussion Starter #20
I really appreciate all of the help you guys have given me. However, my question still remains unanswered.

Why is this a sudden event? I have run this Sh*tty tune for over a month and although it is/was not as good as my original tune from Texas with the 47# injectors, my car started and ran. Now suddenly it doesn't. It is running extremely rich. Why?

There is no way my car went from running Ok one minute and then the next it is running like crap without a minor/major malfunction happening to make it run this rich. At least not in my eyes.

1) Did the tune become corrupt? Is that possible?
2) Do I have a bad fuel pressure regulator?
3) Is an an o2 sensor going or gone bad?
4) Could something have happened to the PCM?

Has anyone had any of the above happen to them and if so what was the fix? Just trying to get a grip on what happened. Any help or suggestions is greatly appreciated. I am already looking for a new tuner.

I did call BJ and of course he doesn't do CA cars, but he did give the name of a tuner up north which is too far away for me. The search continues.
 
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