[flipmo]

O.K. guys been thinking about this one and trying to determine the best way to hit the 600RWHP mark. I see the standard performance package on most of the GT500s, to include the one I had are as such:

METCO 2.6 Pulley (w/93 Tune)
Metco Idler Pulley
Aftermarket Headers
Axle Backs (Some Full Exhaust System)
JLT Carbon Fiber Intake
Aluminum 1-Piece Driveshaft
Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter
Maybe Drag Radials
BMR Full-Suspension Package (UCAs/LCA/Sway-Bar/Panhard Bar/Brace/Loop/Shocks/Struts/Springs)
3.73 or 4.10 Gears

Guys, I did the math and the average RWHP for this type of combo is somewhere in the neighborhood of 520 - 560 RWHP and about the same for RWTQ. Is that just the average power we can expect to gain from a similar combo for the GT500.

I haven't came across one GT500 with at least 600 RWHP unless it had a Kenne Belle or Whipple Supercharger kit on it. So the question is, "Is that just a reality" that you will not hit that mark unless you go Kenne Belle or Whipple? It seems as though the parts listed above should get you there. I spent two different sessions on the dyno but only managed to pull 553 RWHP with the parts listed above. I know a few board members who pulled about 20 to 25 more RWHP out of their cars than I did, but not come close to hitting the 600 RWHP/RWTQ yet.

Any thoughts guys because I could be wrong on this one? Any proof? And if so, what are they doing that many aren't? That's without KB/Whipple that is.

flip

 

[GT500-07]

Both Evo and VMP have the TVS package that will get you there and then some. Or you could try porting the stock blower and TB.
http://www.stiegemeier.com/index.html
http://www.evoperform.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=11_77
http://www.vmptuning.com/store/index.php?

 

[Orf]

I haven't came across one GT500 with at least 600 RWHP unless it had a Kenne Belle or Whipple Supercharger kit on it.

You left out the TVS. Ask George. From what I understand, they fit under the stock hood and allow you to keep the tower brace.

 

[rpretzel]

I have no idea if this is true in the real world, but Fred @ Evo claims gains of "Up To 231 Rear Wheel Horsepower and 243 Rear Wheel Torque" with his Stage 4. If you get only 70% of the claimed gains, you'd be at 600 rwhp.

Stage 4:
- JLT CAI
- 2.6" S/C pulley
- 10% larger billet aluminum balancer pulley
- 160mm Mono Blade Throttle Body
- American Racing Headers 1 ¾” Stainless Steel Long Tube Headers with X-Pipe
- Magnaflow 3” Stainless Steel Catback
- Auxiliary Idler Assembly
- NGK TR6 Spark Plugs

 

[flipmo]

Dorn, I've only been gone 6 months and there are some hot hot hot performance packages out there right now.:ninja:

Those TVS packages are no joke and the 2.3L TVS Shelby GT500 Supercharger - Stage 4 - 850HP is definitely for a fanatic.

Yeah you'll definitely be where you wanna be plus some.

Yet again, with our basic mods, expectations is still somewhere between 525 and 575, Right?

flip

 

[07 SHELBY]

Dorn, I've only been gone 6 months and there are some hot hot hot performance packages out there right now.:ninja:

Those TVS packages are no joke and the 2.3L TVS Shelby GT500 Supercharger - Stage 4 - 850HP is definitely for a fanatic.

Yeah you'll definitely be where you wanna be plus some.

Yet again, with our basic mods, expectations is still somewhere between 525 and 575, Right?

flip

Flip,
What brand dyno was used on your Shelby?

 

[Mustang_Racer]

Add a ported blower, 4 lb lower and 160mm mono throttlebody and you will break 600 with ease.

Also Steggy says porting with a 2.2 pulley (18 psi) will get you 600 rwhp.

i'm getting close to 600 rwhp with the stock blower and a very safe tune. (17 degrees timing 11.6 a/f) with 2.6 upper, port, 4 lb lower, cai, and mufflers. (16 psi)

 

[Svtbird91]

Flip since you asked here is my advice.....

Trying to get 600rwhp from the stock Eaton blower is an exercise in futility IMO.
To get there you will have to spin the blower much faster than is is designed to go , thereby creating unwanted heat and heat soak which in turn will cause the computer to pull an enormous amount of timing which will in turn reduce the power way below the 550 rwhp level.

Even with a larger heat exchanger and long tube headers this will still happen .
I've seen it even with just a 2.6 pulley , long tubes and CAI a stock blower car at 556rwhp when heated up will pull timing and reduce the power after driven hard for a short time and become very sluggish. You can imagine what would happen with the addition of a larger lower pulley and ,or a smaller upper pulley needed to get to the 600rwhp level.

Sure you will make great power on the dyno for 1 pull but that's not the real world test.

Enter the Eaton TVS blower....a twin vortices's blower design which is way more efficient than the stock 122 eaton.

(1) it's a direct bolt on blower
(2) no need to remove the strut tower brace
(3) no need to remove the insulation blanket
(4) no need to change the hood
(5) no need to lower the engine
(6) can efficiently make 605 RWHP as is out of the box with just a tune
and do it consistently without the heat soak and timing pulled.
(7) Has the capability of making much more power if so desired
(8) the only blower sold by FRPP that you can get a warranty with.

In conclusion if you really want to have 600rwhp all day long and keep everything looking stock the TVS is the way to accomplish that IMO.


George........

 

[busababy]

Well you sold me on the TVS that is for sure. I have to agree with that logic in racing there is a saying "There is no replacement for displacement" or something along those lines. I feel with our stock setup you have some options to improve on what Ford gave us.

Long Tube Headers
3 inch Exhaust
Intake & Pulley & Tune
Plugs
Drive Shaft
Gears
08 Balancer
Throttle Body
Ram Air Hood
Some day light weight rims that are 18inch :zzz:
Porting the SC "maybe"
NOS

After that the simple stuff is done. The NOS part simple but you have to have all your ducks in a row so you don't put a piston through the side of the block. After you do all the above you truly have a beast of a car, but if that is not enough than the bigger SC would be your option like SVTBIRD says. Except for the NOS I am slowly checking off my list the above options and knowing I will want more the Ford SC will be my next logical jump. Now put that on with the above options and look out you will out run just about anything out there and be well over your 600hp.

 

[6-Speed]

The TVS with the FRPP Pro-cal tune is the only SC upgrade that I am aware of that is CARB legal - if that's important to anyone.

 

[6-Speed]

I was looking through my new copy of 5.0 magazine and saw where the Whipple twin screw SC for the GT500 is also 50 state legal (EO #D231-26) and delivered 674.1 RWHP - a gain of 335.5 HP from the baseline. The install looks to be more complicated than the TVS.

 

[Svtbird91]

The TVS with the FRPP Pro-cal tune is the only SC upgrade that I am aware of that is CARB legal - if that's important to anyone.

Very good point 6speed. If you live in CA it might be more important than it would be elsewhere but still important none the less.

 

[Mobeydick]

My Evo Stage 4 dynos at 561 rwhp. I have a 4lb lower, Afco Intercooler, Ford GT Cams and 3" Catless X Pipes on the shelf that need to be installed. I think that will get me over the 600 rwhp mark.

 

[croz98gt]

Add a ported blower, 4 lb lower and 160mm mono throttlebody and you will break 600 with ease.

Also Steggy says porting with a 2.2 pulley (18 psi) will get you 600 rwhp.

i'm getting close to 600 rwhp with the stock blower and a very safe tune. (17 degrees timing 11.6 a/f) with 2.6 upper, port, 4 lb lower, cai, and mufflers. (16 psi)

Do that with a 75hp shot of nitrous!

There you go!

JJ

 

[flipmo]

Flip,
What brand dyno was used on your Shelby?

Mustang Chassis Dyno

 

[flipmo]

Flip since you asked here is my advice.....

Trying to get 600rwhp from the stock Eaton blower is an exercise in futility IMO.
To get there you will have to spin the blower much faster than is is designed to go , thereby creating unwanted heat and heat soak which in turn will cause the computer to pull an enormous amount of timing which will in turn reduce the power way below the 550 rwhp level.

Even with a larger heat exchanger and long tube headers this will still happen .
I've seen it even with just a 2.6 pulley , long tubes and CAI a stock blower car at 556rwhp when heated up will pull timing and reduce the power after driven hard for a short time and become very sluggish. You can imagine what would happen with the addition of a larger lower pulley and ,or a smaller upper pulley needed to get to the 600rwhp level.

Sure you will make great power on the dyno for 1 pull but that's not the real world test.

Enter the Eaton TVS blower....a twin vortices's blower design which is way more efficient than the stock 122 eaton.

(1) it's a direct bolt on blower
(2) no need to remove the strut tower brace
(3) no need to remove the insulation blanket
(4) no need to change the hood
(5) no need to lower the engine
(6) can efficiently make 605 RWHP as is out of the box with just a tune
and do it consistently without the heat soak and timing pulled.
(7) Has the capability of making much more power if so desired
(8) the only blower sold by FRPP that you can get a warranty with.

In conclusion if you really want to have 600rwhp all day long and keep everything looking stock the TVS is the way to accomplish that IMO.


George........

George, you are the man :roller: . Great breakdown and like the analysis. I'm jotting all I's and crossing all T's. So true 605 out of the box? I see the TVS kit is definitely the way to go and I'm keeping my eye on the prize.

Thanks

flip

 

[68fastback]

Is the Whipple even available thru FRP? I can't find the 2.9Whipple on the FRP supercharger page.

I also noticed that the 2.3TVS still bears that pesky asterisk [*] <lol> indicating it's not for use on polution-controlled motor vehicles, etc. Tho it carries an FRP warranty, it's apparently not street legal, same as many other FRP pieces -- i.e. EPA and/or CARB approvals would seem to be in a track contet only. So I guess the SS is sold for track-only use? <lol> ...or possibly EPA/CARB approval is pending (last I heard CA approval wasn't final)? Anyone have current insight on that?

---

Flip, I agree with George. As far as porting the stock E122H, it will raise flow potential when spun faster but will still suck a bunch more power than a TVS at same boost because the TVS design is much superior. I would think a ported 122 may even heat-soak quicker than the stocker when run at the higher S/C rpm needed to gain the benefit of the porting, thereby giving back much of the potential via heat-induced pulled timing because it's operating in a range of rapidly diminishing returns. May be fine for 1/4-mile with good cool-down between rounds, but not very effective, imo, on roadcourses or repeated runs, etc. Porting is certainly cheaper but in the end you're fighting the physics of the basic design ...all depends what you're looking for.

I've been praising the design of the TVS for a long time now (I have no affiliation with them or anyone else) and it's great to see it start to show it's stuff in the real world. Imo, it's also superior, imo, to present twin-screw designs liter-for-liter and boost-for-boost both mechanically and thermally -- just my .02 ;-)

Dan

 

[6-Speed]

Is the Whipple even available thru FRP?
I also noticed that the 2.3TVS still bears that pesky asterisk [*] <lol> indicating it's not for use on polution-controlled motor vehicles, etc. Tho it carries an FRP warranty, it's apparently not street legal, same as many other FRP pieces -- i.e. EPA and/or CARB approvals would seem to be in a track contet only. So I guess the SS is sold for track-only use? <lol> ...or possibly EPA/CARB approval is pending (last I heard CA approval wasn't final)? Anyone have current insight on that?

---Dan

The Whipple SC is not offered through FRPP.

I believe the EO#: D-418-10 is the emissions approval. I saw a GT500 with a TVS a few weeks ago and it had an EO sticker affixed to the engine bay.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9887

 

[68fastback]

The Whipple SC is not offered through FRPP.

I believe the EO#: D-418-10 is the emissions approval. I saw a GT500 with a TVS a few weeks ago and it had an EO sticker affixed to the engine bay.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9887

...that's what I thought, but then why the asterisk? Possibly they just forgot to remove it? <shrug>

Notice that for the CAI and recalibration it states "50 states street-legal" before the E.O.# and shows no asterisk up top after the part# ...versus for the S/C ...dunno.

 

[Svtbird91]

Yes the TVS does come with a C.A.R.B. sticker here's mine.