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Discussion Starter #1
I am about to start some mods on my 08 vert,(she is completely stock).
My mod list:

VMP Gen2r (ported)
VMP Twin 67
ID1050x
KB BAP
OR-H-pipe



I have used Lund Racing in the past with the nGauge and they did a great job (09 & 11 GT500), I was all set to get another tune and advised I need these 2 items to tune 07-10 cars (I have been out of the loop for a while,I didn't know this).

1)ZT-2 Advanced Data Logging System With Cable
2)3.5 Bar Boost Sensor

Obviously this is to tune the car safely and get a dialed in tune, BUT $500 USD ($700 cdn) added to the tune that I don't want to put out (tight a$$ :cool: ).
Plus, being in Canada getting the parts maybe an issue right now??

My nGauge was licensed to Lund Racing,a little back and forth with John Nardi (good guy) and they gave me permission to get E-Motion to remove the licensing, now the nGauge is HP Tuners & I can get a different tune from a new Tuner.

I chatted with VMP this morning & I can use my nGauge with their tune, the guy I chatted with seemed very knowledgeable and told me exactly what I needed (2 HP Credits $49 & tune $499 )
MY problem is, I used VMP about 5 years ago and I was not happy with the tune & dropped them to get a Lund tune.

I have read that VMP has new staff and would like to hear from guys that have used their tunes lately.

Anyways,
Any suggestions on a tuner that uses the nGauge?

I need an Email tune as no Tuner/Dyno near me (I live in the bush).

Cheers
Colin

IMG_8801.JPG IMG_8349.jpg
 

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You need to see this data if you want to do it right.
I guess boost level isn’t important, but logging AFR is crucial.
I have used tons of options and that zt2 with the Ngauge is pure bliss
If I were you I would stick with Lund. This stuff isn’t cheap by any means, but the extra money is to make things safer and get better data.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You need to see this data if you want to do it right.
I guess boost level isn’t important, but logging AFR is crucial.
I have used tons of options and that zt2 with the Ngauge is pure bliss
If I were you I would stick with Lund. This stuff isn’t cheap by any means, but the extra money is to make things safer and get better data.
In the past I used the SCT handhelds and no AFR logging, other tuners do the same now.
I totally get it as I said above, being in Canada I would need to get the parts required also.

Thanxs
Colin
 

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If you did no AFR logging, you got a canned tune plain and simple.
If you cannot see the data you are just gonna guess at it.
IMHO the risk is not worth it. Sure people do it and the sensors will trim fuel and will likely be “ok”, but it’s not ideal. Hence why Lund won’t do it.
 

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I decide to just bilt the bullet and get Lund to do the tune.
cost me more $$ but I know I have the right guys on the job.

Colin
Wise choice!
You will thank me later.
That being said here is an install video of all those parts that might help you through the process.

 

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Good thing I searched before creating a thread. I’m in a similar boat. I was tuned this August for 2.5” Pulley and JLT 110. Now, I added a VMP elbow (ported M122 opening) and JLT 123. I just got some ‘13 injectors and I’m working on a TB upgrade. Lund is now telling me I need the ngauge, zt2, 3.5 bar sensor, and to upgrade to a dyno tune session just for the injectors. Does that seem like a little much? I understand all of Colin’s upgradings needing more fine tuning. But mine are more like bread and butter type of mods lol. Especially with stock SC still on.
Has anyone needed special tuning just for a ‘13 injector swap? Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I was shocked as I was looking at $1300 for a tune and need parts, PHUCK

i just ordered the ZT-2 today, I got mine on EBay ($260)
I didn’t get the boost sensor addon as I dont think that is a must.
i will be sticking with Lund as I really like their tunes and the hardware needed will also help with future mods/ tune updates.

I did talk with VMP and asked if they required the same parts for a tune, they do not BUT it is a VERY good idea that the tuner can see your AFR in the datalog.

Do you need to upgrade your injectors?
Your mods seem totally doable with the stock 47#
I would confirm needed by Lund before hand.

decisions decisions man.

Colin
 

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Look up how much a 5.4 or 5.8 costs to rebuild. Then come back and tell me it cost too much money to give the tuner the data he needs to be safe.
If you guys don’t want to spend the money, then go to a local tuner and have them tune it for you and use their equipment. If you are cool with guesswork then pay someone like VMP to send you a generic one size fits all tune with no datalogging. Actually just go to Bama then lol.
You gotta pay to play.
Alex just went over this on a video 2 weeks ago about GT500 guys being cheap and not wanting to spend any money to get them good data.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Look up how much a 5.4 or 5.8 costs to rebuild. Then come back and tell me it cost too much money to give the tuner the data he needs to be safe.
If you guys don’t want to spend the money, then go to a local tuner and have them tune it for you and use their equipment. If you are cool with guesswork then pay someone like VMP to send you a generic one size fits all tune with no datalogging. Actually just go to Bama then lol.
You gotta pay to play.
Alex just went over this on a video 2 weeks ago about GT500 guys being cheap and not wanting to spend any money to get them good data.
it not just being Phunken cheap.
What actually takes place is, just in case you missed it.
People who have used Lund in the past for tunes have NOT needed the ZT-2 or boost sensor or nGauge to tune their cars.
They order a tune or inquire, then told that Lund Racing requires these now, $1300 plus if labour plus waiting for hardware to arrive.
Oh, and the fact that not everyone can drop $1300 right now, $550 is a easier pill to swallow, not everyone has deep pockets.

Obviously, it’s something that Lund sees as a need for 07-10 car owner, pretty sure we know that.

Colin
 

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it not just being Phunken cheap.
What actually takes place is, just in case you missed it.
People who have used Lund in the past for tunes have NOT needed the ZT-2 or boost sensor or nGauge to tune their cars.
They order a tune or inquire, then told that Lund Racing requires these now, $1300 plus if labour plus waiting for hardware to arrive.
Oh, and the fact that not everyone can drop $1300 right now, $550 is a easier pill to swallow, not everyone has deep pockets.

Obviously, it’s something that Lund sees as a need for 07-10 car owner, pretty sure we know that.

Colin
The difference is you did not need it before because your mods qualified for a canned tune. You can buy canned tunes which fueling is not as big of a concern and then there are custom tunes for people with more serious mods. Once you change fuel injectors I am pretty sure the canned tune thing stops. Forget about it for sure with a bigger blower or cams.

Guys. you want to make power and have a reliable car right? You need the tools to give them the data so it stays together.
Again if you don't want to buy the tools, just go to a local tuner as they will use their own. You may go to a local tuner and they tell you they do not use HP tuners and only use SCT and now you gotta buy a new device. It all goes with what the tuner wants to use.
PS: you can do all this without the ZT2 as well, it is just more difficult. The boost sensor is not needed whatsoever. The wideband, you can get any wideband that can be analogged in and wire it up to an SCT. Possibly the Ngauge as well.

I have all these fancy parts we are talking about. They didn't even suggest it to me, I just knew it was valuable to see that data and that was the easiest way to get it all in one package. Yea it sucks swallowing the money, but you got a $4k blower, $1400 injectors, $800 throttlebody, $500 BAP, what is another $1300?
You can find these things used or preowned and not installed cheap sometimes as well. I paid like $150-175 if memory serves me for my ZT2/Wideband sensor/3.5bar boost sensor and all wiring. I paid maybe another $200 for my NGauge.
 

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PM, that’s what I was originally asking. I thought my mods did qualify for a canned tune. It’s an intake, elbow, and pulley. I was just curious if Injectors were the same. People step up to larger injectors all the time on modulars with the same ecu (granted on 3v). I just thought it was odd and wanted to make sure a dyno tune was needed for injectors. I do understand the equipment will make my car safer and easier to tune. I also understand that a canned tune is a risk. Like I said, I just thought it was odd that injectors can’t be tuned easily with values given on the ford website. Also now they are telling me to get a BAP, for a retune. My only change is the elbow and 123mm JLT from last tune. Just looking to compare experiences.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
PM, that’s what I was originally asking. I thought my mods did qualify for a canned tune. It’s an intake, elbow, and pulley. I was just curious if Injectors were the same. People step up to larger injectors all the time on modulars with the same ecu (granted on 3v). I just thought it was odd and wanted to make sure a dyno tune was needed for injectors. I do understand the equipment will make my car safer and easier to tune. I also understand that a canned tune is a risk. Like I said, I just thought it was odd that injectors can’t be tuned easily with values given on the ford website. Also now they are telling me to get a BAP, for a retune. My only change is the elbow and 123mm JLT from last tune. Just looking to compare experiences.
Joe,
why are you swapping to the 13/14 injectors?

MANY cars tuned for the 2.5/JLT 123 using the stock 47#

WEIRD they would want a BAP also.

Colin
 

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I figured I’d get them instead of a BAP. I found a set for 150 shipped. Just didn’t think they’d be so much trouble to tune. But yes, most didn’t have to buy pump boosters until they added a lower pulley. That struck me as odd as well.
 

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Remember, you are changing quite a bit about the fueling. Once you start messing with fueling, they want it safe.
If you pop your motor because you didn't want to do it right, then who gets blamed? They do. . ..
 

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Colin, I suspect it has more to do with the ported blower than anything. It's anyone's guess how much boost it will make, and not knowing that makes it hard to estimate what the timing needs to be. Unless you have a way to measure boost on a log, it's a crap shoot. The injectors swap is a simple value file change. It's a non-issue. What didn't you like about the VMP tune? Just curious.

@Vette_vs_Stang, you don't have that issues, so check with Lund before assuming you need these other components. If you do, then it's a policy change at Lund Racing. I think you can get a good conservative tune elsewhere. A tune becomes more crtical when you run it on the edge. Unless you're racing where .02 seconds count, I wouldn't go there.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Colin, I suspect it has more to do with the ported blower than anything. It's anyone's guess how much boost it will make, and not knowing that makes it hard to estimate what the timing needs to be. Unless you have a way to measure boost on a log, it's a crap shoot. The injectors swap is a simple value file change. It's a non-issue. What didn't you like about the VMP tune? Just curious.

@Vette_vs_Stang, you don't have that issues, so check with Lund before assuming you need these other components. If you do, then it's a policy change at Lund Racing. I think you can get a good conservative tune elsewhere. A tune becomes more crtical when you run it on the edge. Unless you're racing where .02 seconds count, I wouldn't go there.
hey John,
It was about 5 years ago.
My car it was missing and just didn't feel right, I did all sorts of things to try and get it running properly, a friend told me to try Lund racing as he was convinced it was in the tune, got a tune and a few datalogs and all was well.
At that time there was an issue with the Cervini Ram air hoods and the JLT CAI, I added the mesh to the hood vents & that resolved that issue.

GOOD point on the ported blower, I never thought about that, DAMMIT :)

You are correct on the policy change.


Colin
 

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Thanks for the info @Catmonkey. Lund (Tyler) was telling me I would need all of the equipment plus a dyno tune for injectors. I thought a value change should do it. They were way cheaper than a BAP. Oh well. That’s why I just wanted a simple revision, already having been tuned by them 6 months ago. Basically just to add the larger JLT and some injectors. I’ll look into getting an O2 anyway though, @PM-Performance does have a point there. Just didn’t wanna go that far yet. That was gonna be when I swapped the stock blower out like @Colin1966 is.
 

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I wasn’t so sure the blower was ported when I read the post. I thought he was saying just the elbow was ported to matched up nicely with the OE Eaton mouth.
 
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