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13/14 Cars - FRPP 65mm Throttle Body - No Tune

2007 - 2014 
5K views 18 replies 7 participants last post by  Goose17 
#1 ·
I've read comments that the 13/14 cars can run the 65mm Cobra Jet throttle body without a tune. I know the PCM is pretty intelligent and can make many adjustments on its own. But is this really true?

I know, why would I even run it without a tune? My thought is if the car is smart enough to adjust for it on it's own and the gain difference is marginal, why not keep the PCM clean and unmolested. I decided some time ago I really didn't have any reason to tune the car, it has plenty of out of box power for me. I want the TB for the look more than anything to compliment all the other polished bits in the engine compartment.

Thoughts???
 
#2 ·
It's true. But you'd want a tune if you start doing additional mods like a pulley. The load maps don't go high enough in the stock tune, so all that needs to be adjusted and the timing tables modified if you go in for more boost. I think you'd be okay with just the throttle body. I shouldn't affect boost much, if at all.
 
#3 ·
I was hoping you were going to respond since you have experience with the copperhead PCM. I have no plans to increase boost. I hardly get to use all the boost I have now.

It's important to know what's safe and what's not. Thanks for responding.
 
#5 ·
Just do a pulley and tune along with the shiny throttle body. It will take your car to another level safely.
 
#6 ·
Semi-true. Meaning your results may vary.

There are 3 factors.

The effective area is 8 percent larger than the stock 60mm and SHOULD be accounted for as its important to have the correct amount of idle airflow in the cal.

Feed forward throttle prediction. Yes, it "learns". So do fuel trims. But, force them to learn too much and you'll throw check engine lights/ codes on the fueling side. As for the throttle, it's limp mode and failsafe and potentially dangerous.

Finally, wheel torque error. Without the torque and torque inverse accounted for you will at some point hit the wheel torque wall. You'll failsafe.

These are all facts more than 75 percent of the time.

Bj

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#8 ·
I have no problem tuning if it’s warranted. I want the FRPP throttle body. I could polish the stock one myself if that’s what I wanted. I have no interest in increasing boost with a pulley or going to a larger intake.

I was expecting and welcoming the different opinions and experiences. I appreciate it and keep them coming.

Being a systems engineer, I probably have a better understanding of tech in general than most. When I hear the terms “dangerous” it would be helpful to qualify and explain a little more specifically.
 
#9 ·
I have no problem tuning if it’s warranted. I want the FRPP throttle body. I could polish the stock one myself if that’s what I wanted. I have no interest in increasing boost with a pulley or going to a larger intake.



I was expecting and welcoming the different opinions and experiences. I appreciate it and keep them coming.



Being a systems engineer, I probably have a better understanding of tech in general than most. When I hear the terms “dangerous” it would be helpful to qualify and explain a little more specifically.
If you are referring to my saying it's potentially dangerous you can tag me or call me because the chances of me just happening past your comment were slim, but I caught it this time.

Potentially dangerous because if you're in traffic and accelerate only to have the car go into limp/failsafe mode you can put yourself and others at risk by having no throttle input.

You'll need to immediately pull over to restart the car and that's going to be a challenge when you're in the middle lane at 65 mph when it happens.

The opinions you are reading are personal and anecdotal. Mine isn't. Mine is mechanical and technical and I address these issues for a living.

"No tune required" is a popular term. Is it true? Sometimes. Is it best practice? Almost never.

I had this conversation with a guy yesterday who argued that he wouldn't have to pay for a tune if he bought the "no tune" intake from PMAS that he saw on American Muscle.

Why no tune? Because they provide a new mass air sensor. Think about it ; if more air dictates more fuel then what is that new sensor doing? (I'll leave that open because I don't want to muddy opinions with science)

Same principles at play. Just because a mod can be tolerated by the system doesn't mean that it should be. You may be on the edge of tolerance with little to no room for error in voltage, environmental impact or user input.

Modding is fun for many of us. It should be given sufficient thought as we many times are operating at the boundaries of operational windows, some of which can have negative impact on our driving experience and safety.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
#10 ·
I've heard BJ elude to the 13-14 cars being harder to tune than the earlier cars because of Ford's extended use of torque related settings. If a car fail safes, it goes into limp mode and is not going to react favorably to throttle input, so the car can be dangerous on a busy roadway when that happens. I'm sure there are worse things that can happen if you botch the drive by wire controls. I'll defer to the pro.
 
#12 ·
I have a 14 and installed a Ford Racing 65 mm TB. Otherwise stock intake, no tune. I had it on for a few months of weekend driving. For me, there was a driveability issue. The car would surge when driving at a steady speed which drove me nuts. I went ahead and removed it and the car returned to its previous drive characteristics.

But, it sure was Pretty!

Tom
 
#13 ·
Hey guys, I know this is an old thread but I'm new to the forum and am having an issue with the Ford performance 65mm twin TB. 2009 GT500. Installed it along with a tune from American Muscle. Car accelerates like it's possessed, but at cruise (2000rpm or so) it stumbles down the road like it's tripping over it's own feet. AM just modified the the tune but it still has the same issue. Car has a 2.6 pulley and a JLT CAI. 4.10 rear end. As long as it's accelerating it's smooth. Guess I'll have to keep my foot in it all the time.
 
#14 ·
Hey guys, I know this is an old thread but I'm new to the forum and am having an issue with the Ford performance 65mm twin TB. 2009 GT500. Installed it along with a tune from American Muscle. Car accelerates like it's possessed, but at cruise (2000rpm or so) it stumbles down the road like it's tripping over it's own feet. AM just modified the the tune but it still has the same issue. Car has a 2.6 pulley and a JLT CAI. 4.10 rear end. As long as it's accelerating it's smooth. Guess I'll have to keep my foot in it all the time.
First off, welcome to the forum! We have had quite a few posts through the years here about issues with American Muscle (Bama) tunes. They do a great job with the 5.0 crowd, but I haven’t seen one happy customer yet with their tune on a GT500. I’d go with those that know how to tune these cars. You could either hit a local speed shop for a dyno tune or go with one of the popular GT500 mail-order tuners.

Aside from the questionable tune, make sure all of your intake connections are snug... make sure no air is bypassing your MAF sensor.

You’ll also find our new member area here: https://www.fordgt500.com/forums/new-member-introductions.145/
 
#15 ·
Since this was dug up from the grave, I’ll share my thoughts.

Get a tune from a reputable GT500 tuner. I got a Lund tune and never looked back. The car has been transformed into the way it should drive and deliver power from the factory. The extra kick in the pants is noticeable as well. I went with Lund. His experience, reputation, and cool demeanor is what swayed me his direction. Between Lund and Starkey, you can’t go wrong with either imho.
 
#16 ·
Good info and just to clarify for Taj, “Starkey” is VMP.

Bringing a thread back from a couple months ago is no problem. All of the members are usually still actively participating here. Bringing a thread back to life that has been dormant for years is not ideal.

Hey guys, I know this is an old thread but I'm new to the forum and am having an issue with the Ford performance 65mm twin TB. 2009 GT500. Installed it along with a tune from American Muscle. Car accelerates like it's possessed, but at cruise (2000rpm or so) it stumbles down the road like it's tripping over it's own feet. AM just modified the the tune but it still has the same issue. Car has a 2.6 pulley and a JLT CAI. 4.10 rear end. As long as it's accelerating it's smooth. Guess I'll have to keep my foot in it all the time.
 
#18 ·
Hey guys, thanks much for the info. I really appreciate it. I'll readily admit this car is new to me as is "electronic" tuning. The last car ( 428 CJ in a 54 Ford Victoria) I had required a dwell meter and a timing light to tune it up. I've double checked for air bypass issues and even cleaned the MAF sensor. Nothing obvious. I'll definitely look into Lund for a proper tune. The guys at BAMA modified the last tune they gave me, but it didn't cure the issue. It just throws a different set of codes.
Michael
 
#19 ·
Hey guys, thanks much for the info. I really appreciate it. I'll readily admit this car is new to me as is "electronic" tuning. The last car ( 428 CJ in a 54 Ford Victoria) I had required a dwell meter and a timing light to tune it up. I've double checked for air bypass issues and even cleaned the MAF sensor. Nothing obvious. I'll definitely look into Lund for a proper tune. The guys at BAMA modified the last tune they gave me, but it didn't cure the issue. It just throws a different set of codes.
Michael
Lund has happy customers. You will be in good hands.
 
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