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Coyote-5.0 - Condor-5.4 - Trinity-5.8

45K views 65 replies 28 participants last post by  mustang loco 
#1 ·
I thought about making this thread a Poll, but I decided that a lively dialogue would be more fun.

Ford has 3 V8 Mustang engines, I have been wondering for awhile as to which of these engines has:

1) The most efficiency? This means; not how much can it make, but how well can it make it?

2) The most potential? This means; how much can be done to it without catastrophic failure?

3) Which are the future? With CAFE looming large, which will Ford turn to?

4) Which are the Dinosaurs? Are any of these engines doomed?

I know a lot of you will be, all about the engines that are in the Shelbys you drive, but I'm hoping we can get some openminded debate. For instance, I am pretty sure the 5.4, (like the one in mine), will be on the chopping block, but not because it's displacement is too large, but because it is the most antiquated of the three. :(
 
#2 ·
I would think the the coyote -boss variant, due to having all forged internals and excellent headgear. It makes 444HP and gets 23+mpg makes its power up top but is well equipped to rev up top all the time. It has proven to also put down 800+ with any kind of forced induction to include the TT cobrajet FRPP put together.


The 5.4 is no doubt an amazing motor and solid performer, and the trinity is record setting but not logical for long term goals at ford.


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#6 ·
Definitely don't run out and trade up. The 5.4 is an amazing motor with huge potential and a great base to build on. Its just a discussion on where the future may be going and which platform may make the cut or further developing. They are all great motors from Ford with many applications.


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#4 ·
My opinion. The 5.4 is the best high performance motor ever put in a Mustang. The 5.8 is also great (after all it started as a 5.4) but it is a flash in the pan. It will disappear in the near future. The 5.0 is the future of the Ford V-8. A strong, economical performer with huge power potential. I had a 2012 5.0 that I traded on my 2012 Shelby. It was a very strong motor even in stock configuration. Love my 5.4 best of all.
 
#5 ·
Well said. I agree with all that. As the Mustang becomes a smaller vehicle in '15, the Coyote will become the V8 option. With the lighter Mustang, it will be deadly. I think the the 5.4 will be the engine sought after in the future by motorheads, looking to lay down some serious power.
 
#7 ·
In scanning through your options I failed to see the 289v8. What gives?

Seriously, I think the new 5.0 is the direction the future is pointing. efficient, powerful, durable and compact.
I also think the crank driven supercharger will say goodbye in the very near future, too inefficient compared to turbos.

I think in the future we'll look back on our supercharged cars as we look back on Mustang SCJ's, and Firebird SD's.
 
#11 ·
I kinda doubt the Supercharger will go bye bye, not any time soon, anyway. Because it's instant power. It's the main reason that Drag Racers use superchargers, almost exclusively. A turbo takes a little while to build up, because turbos are driven by exhaust gases. There is no doubt in my mind that they will improve turbochargers. When that happens, they could supplant the supercharger. But until that happens, the constantly improving superchargers will reign supreme.
 
#8 ·
Eco Boost is the future for Ford


The 5.4/5.8 are the best street for making power from stock form IMO. The Coyote block is just not able to take big boost.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Eco Boost is the future for ford.
I totally agree, not a muscle car motor but with an aftermarket tuner my f150 EB makes 415 hp and 500 tq. Given the weight savings if they installed the eb in a mustang it would be a fast car.

If you want to know how fast an eb can be in a car look up some of the Taurus track times, I think they are running under 13's.
 
#14 ·
When I purchased my 2011 F150 Screw 6.2 they tried to sell me an EB over a 6.2 and 5.0 ltr..... No way would I take on a turbo or dual turbos over NA or SC. Owned several and all required return visits to the stealership for issues over time. To boot, they were European cars which have lots of history with turbos on mass-produced cars.

Nope, won't be buying any more new Fords if that is the future......... I vote 5.0 SC.
 
#15 ·
The 6.2 is a heck of a motor too, I love the NASCAR sound it makes. I personally think ford is currently a good step ahead in powerplant options in general compared to gm or dodge.
 
#16 · (Edited)
The trend seems to be to try and get better gas mileage. GM has the new engine in the Vette which can switch to running on 4 cylinders going down the road. And I notice the Hyundai now has a 2 liter engine that is turbocharged and makes about 275 HP. That was about what my 96 Firebird made stock with the 5.7 liter non-supercharged non-turbocharged engine. So smaller engines putting out more horse power, using less gas. Makes me wonder if the Mustang of the future will have a 6 cylinder engine with twin turbochargers making about 800 HP.

And there is always the combination. I read about a guy with a special design car. The car had twin turbochargers on it but it still had some turbo lag so to get around the lag the car was set up with a special nitrous operation whereby the nitrous filled in for the turbo lag and as the turbos cut in the nitrous boost would go away. One guy went to drive it one day and the owner yelled at him that it was out of nitrous so had that lag in it.

Of course some people have run multiple systems such as a turbo charger feeding into a supercharger.

So I think either Ford will go with the 8 cylinder engine which can run on 4 cylinders like GM or go with twin turbo V-6 making plenty of steam!!!

And you know, part of this gas mileage crap is because of the imported oil but I keep reading that with fracting and with new methods of extracting oil that soon the US will be exporting oil http://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...dakota-is-the-next-hub-of-us-energy-9660512-2

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/512656/skipping-the-water-in-fracking/

Maybe we will start going the other way with gas prices going down, octane going up and horsepower going through the roof. If that happens who know WHAT kind of engine might be in the future, a V-12 maybe. Or a V-6 burning 100 octane.

All I know is the more power I have, the more fun the car is to drive. Right now I'm really enjoying the 2011 Shelby with the Whipple supposedly making 750 HP. And I wish I had a 2013 with a bigger supercharger making south of 850 RWHP.

Anyway enough said!!

More power to everyone!! Power to the people!!!
 
#18 ·
The 5.4 is already obsolete. The 5.8 will probably go out of service after the '14 GT500. In fact the GT500 is probably going to take an extended hiatus. If that does happen, and they bring it back with an independent rear expect them NOT to offer the 600+ tq 5.8l engine.

My guess is that in the future the most collectable GT500's will be the ones with the 5.4L Iron block. These sleeved motors can be rebuilt, where the flame sprayed aluminum block is not.
 
#19 ·
Hasn't history proven that the most collectible has been the biggest/baddest engine? In this case the 5.8.
 
#20 ·
I think I will go with the masses here. Of the three options, 5.0 is the most forward looking motor. Fuel consumption requirements are going to force most of the auto makers into smaller displacement forced induction motors. I could see the Shelby coming back with a (twin?)turbo 5.0. Honestly everyone is shocked that I get the gas mileage I get in my car but its still not that great. Expect to see Ford spreading the EcoBoost engines across every vehicle they offer in the next few years. My best friend has an EcoBoost F150 and that thing is SO much more responsive and quick than my 08’ F150 ever was. And I had a CAI and tune on mine.
 
#21 ·
I too think the 5.0 is the motor that's looking forward and should carry on for some time now I would think and hope. That being said, eco boost and turbos are here to stay and will certainly become more prominent. Technology is getting so much better that turbo lag is becoming a thing of the past any more. That being said, there is a lot of engineering going into the turbos on these cars that if they do go the route of turbos on a v8 it will likely have minimal to no lag, but I would bet money that simply swapping out for larger turbos to get more hp will induce lag because I just don't see the aftermarket getting all that involved in the development of turbos. I think we'll see a lot of turbos being taken off and replaced by superchargers on these cars for the street.
 
#22 ·
Biggest isn't always baddest, and the 5.0, just by virtue of how much superior the cylinder heads are alone, has way more potential in it than the 5.8...

The question is, between increasing govt standard pressures and corporate bean-counting and engineering limits of new IRS, whether Ford will launch the "eco-boost from Hell" upon us that is easily do-able with the Coyote...

So for now, Goose is right, the 5.8 is the king ding-a-ling... But the Coyote has the goods and potential and volumetric-efficiency to pop it like a zit if the all the variables fall into place..
 
#23 ·
(1)The 5.0 gets the nod for the most efficiency due to the variable valve timing system.

(2)The 5.8 has the most potential for how much can be done to it without catastrophic failure

(3) I think if Ford puts a V-8 in the new mustang, they will likely turn to the 5.0 due to the efficiency of that motor

(4) I think the 5.8 will be gone after the 2014 unless they decide on one last hurrah and throw variable valve timing at it. We don't even know if it will fit into the new mustang. Looks like to me the 2013 & 2014 models will end with the highest HP motors that were put in the mustang.

I don't think Ford is going to ECO boost the 5.0 just for a new GT500. Too much cost in time and development.
 
#24 ·
I think you only need to look at what's going on with the 2014 Cobra Jet to see what engine Ford is continuing to develop. I only see mention of a supercharged 5.0 Cobra Jet available in the order banks.

I see lots of comments disparaging the sprayed bore technology. These blocks can be and are being sleeved. Not to mention FRPP sells both the aluminum 5.4 and 5.8 blocks. Although, I've yet to hear of a failure related directly to the spray bore. Most catastrophic failures on these engines are likely to have you sleeving an iron block too.

If you intend to keep your '11+ car for a while, you might consider getting a spare aluminum block before they go out of production.
 
#26 ·
I wonder if the spray bore technology will find its way into the coyote block, or has that been done with the aluminator blocks?


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#28 · (Edited)
According to the latest issue of Automobile Magazine, the '15 engine bay is too tight for the 5.8, and apparently the top dog engine option shall be an Ecoboost 5.0.....
 
#30 ·
I think "most collectible" equates to low production numbers for the cars that trade for big numbers today. Hemis, LS7s, L88s, 427 Fords, Super Cobra Jets and the like. Ford is going to have produced at least 40,000 GT500s by the end of the 2014 production year. I really doubt these are going to be collectibles, at least not in my lifetime.
 
#39 ·
Yes.

Which is why I will bide my time for 3-4 years after depreciation takes its toll and pick up a pristine '13-'14 to thrash.

Unless the '15 is sufficiently awesome. I don't really care whose name is plastered on the rump, it's the performance that counts.
 
#31 ·
I think people will be wanting these big engined high powered cars for a long time after they stop making them. Prices are going up for Terminators now only 10 years on, you might live to see your G500 appreciate too!
 
#32 ·
The 5.0 is for sure the newest, most modern and most efficient.

THE 5.4/5.8 block to have is the Ford GT style block. Aluminum with steel sleeves. The limitations and benefits of the other two(three) blocks are pretty straight forward.

I hope I am lucky enough to keep my iron pig long enough to make use of those sleeves that I have.
I don't see Ford sticking this block in anything short of a truck any time soon.
 
#34 ·
Horsepower rarely ever goes down. I look for the next gt to be the same and the next cobra not shelby to be a year out and probably in the 640hp range. Done so with the frpp forged coyote with twin hair dryers and 15lbs of boost. Just my guess..

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#35 ·
I have to disagree the focus in the future of hi-po cars will be high to moderate HP with a huge emphasis on weight reduction for increased performance over what we have today. The future Cobra as I see it is 550HP range with target weight of 3200-3300lbs or slightly more using carbon fiber and other lightweight materials. The production costs of CF and other lightweight material technology is coming down as manufacturing processes become more economical. CAFE standards are pratically dictating this. Of course this is just my humble opinion.
 
#36 ·
I had a 2011 5.0L GT (ex-gf totaled), and now I have a 2010 GT500. I am glad to have an iron block rather than an aluminum one that is sprayed with some coating. I'm probably going to leave my car in stock configuration, so I doubt a catastrophic engine failure will happen, or if it does, won't for a long, long time. The 2011 GT called for conventional 5W-20 that didn't need to be changed for about 10,000 miles. When I checked it at 6,000, it was 1/2 quart low and somewhat gritty, pitch black. The Shelby calls for 5W-50 full synthetic. I checked it at about 6,000 miles and it was full to the drop and looked like honey. The 5.4 and the 5.8 are goners. Recently Ford leaked a version of the 2015 Mustang with 4 cylinders and turbocharged. Big iron pigs like mine are never going to be produced for cars again. But if left in stock configuration, don't be surprised if the Condor is one of the last Shelby motors standing. Only time will tell about spraying the cylinders with plasma, but time has already spoken on the durability of iron block engines. Some that are 30 years old or more are still in use. Yes Ford knows a lot more than I do about their engines, but I am still baffled at the 5W-20 oil for the Coyote. It can't be nearly the oil a 5W-50 full synthetic is. A lot of answers about the 5.0, 5.4, and 5.8 will be answered in a decade or so.
 
#37 ·
I have to agree that the Coyote is the future, it's modern design makes it a natural for super and turbo charging. I'm sure that eventually, we will see a 5.0 Ecoboost. I said it before, the Iron Condor will be sought after for years to come. It is a proven Horsepower producer, and it's potential easily outweighs it's extra 100+ pounds of weight. I will be keeping my eye on the Aluminum Condors and Trinitys, I have some opinions about how they will fare in the long run, but I'd rather just wait and see.
 
#38 ·
I am not sure where all the fear of the aluminum blocks come from. It has gone back and forth for years now. Buy a aluminum cobra block to build they are lighter and stronger NO build a cast iron block they are stronger. I think most are missing the point 99% of the time its a rod going through the block that causes the failure. Better rods or less RPM prevents this. And we all know how popular iron heads are these days even though they must be stronger.
I don't think other then overall HP rating of the engine the block material will never matter in the future.

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