http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/vnmous1gt500/Shelby/th_bogartmandh.jpg (http://s765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/vnmous1gt500/Shelby/?action=view&current=bogartmandh.jpg)

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/vnmous1gt500/Shelby/th_gottire.jpg (http://s765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/vnmous1gt500/Shelby/?action=view&current=gottire.jpg)

Well, that oughta do it.

bj

That's a serious looking combination.

That's a serious looking combination.

Traction? No longer an excuse.

bj

You're going to kick some serious butt at the track. Awesome!

You will love the bogards. With the reduction in rotational weigh, you will break into the 10's? I hope and believe your sixty foot will be a little better.

How much hp and tq are you making now with your car and how much does the car weight if you don't mind. Your assistance is appreciated.

You will love the bogards. With the reduction in rotational weigh, you will break into the 10's? I hope and believe your sixty foot will be a little better.

How much hp and tq are you making now with your car and how much does the car weight if you don't mind. Your assistance is appreciated.

Beats me....the 10s on a stock blower are pretty tough. It's best has been 11.11@124 on a 1.66 and that's about as good of a 60' that could be had on those tires with my limited skills.

Going tomorrow night. But it's pretty hot and rain is coming so it'll be humid.
But, if nothing else I'll work on 60' times.

Car weighs 4025 with me and 4 gallons in it.

535/517 on power. Dynojet.

Upper pulley and JLT only. Everything else is stock, engine and intake wise.

bj

You're going to kick some serious butt at the track. Awesome!

Your mouth to God's ears my friend. We'll see. The "driver mod" isn't as quick as it used to be.

bj

Beats me....the 10s on a stock blower are pretty tough. It's best has been 11.11@124 on a 1.66 and that's about as good of a 60' that could be had on those tires with my limited skills.

Going tomorrow night. But it's pretty hot and rain is coming so it'll be humid.
But, if nothing else I'll work on 60' times.

Car weighs 4025 with me and 4 gallons in it.

535/517 on power. Dynojet.

Upper pulley and JLT only. Everything else is stock, engine and intake wise.

bj

Wow! Your car is moving for the power combo. You have done great job with limited power-it must be in the supension and some good driving.

Have you considered the lower pulley! Bam ten's! :silly:

Wow! Your car is moving for the power combo. You have done great job with limited power-it must be in the supension and some good driving.

Have you considered the lower pulley! Bam elevens! :silly:

Nope. I have plenty of power. If it'll trap 124, it'll go 10s on the right day, right track, right pilot. It consistently runs sub 11.49 and that requires a cage at any certified track. So, for me, it's a matter of working on short times as my primary objective. When that gets warmed up I let 'er rip a couple of times til I get thumped. Then I go home and wait for the next time. And yes, it's suspension and practice. Once I'm past 150', the car does the rest.

:cool:

bj

Uh! Have you ever considered the lowered pulley. It is my understanding you get about 25 hp and 50 tq? Your hp and tq would almost be identical with each other. If you did this mod-do you think you would break the 10's?

Uh! Have you ever considered the lowered pulley. It is my understanding you get about 25 hp and 50 tq? Your hp and tq would almost be identical with each other. If you did this mod-do you think you would break the 10's?

Not interested. More power is simple and anyone can buy it. A little, a lot, your choice.

As for 10's, I don't know anyone that's done it on an upper-pulley only car with a completely stock blower and no other engine/intake/exhaust mods...oh, and without slicks. No one on the forums nor on Drag Times.

I think it can be done. Why buy a canon when you can hit the X with a well placed pistol shot?


bj

Not interested.

I think it can be done. Why buy a canon when you can hit the X with a well placed pistol shot?


bj

Well said BJ

It's best has been 11.11@124 on a 1.66 and that's about as good of a 60' that could be had on those tires with my limited skills.

bj

I wish I had your limited skills.

I hear you Mike. I was thinking the same thing. :)

BJ what size tires are those? Careful not to run on too low a air pressure. I was running 45 series MTs on my car at 12 lbs and the bulged on burnout to the point that they rubbed the front side of my fender wells. Ans my car is stock height too. It will be interesting to see your times. I felt my MPH suffered with a taller tire too.

Well said BJ

Great! Sounds like you have a goal for 10's with the mods you have and be the first. I understand now. I believe you will make it with good weather and a good sixty foot. Your quest is close and around the corner. :)

BJ what size tires are those? Careful not to run on too low a air pressure. I was running 45 series MTs on my car at 12 lbs and the bulged on burnout to the point that they rubbed the front side of my fender wells. Ans my car is stock height too. It will be interesting to see your times. I felt my MPH suffered with a taller tire too.

325/50/15 (28 x 11 x 15)

Played with them for a while tonight. It was way hot and I wasn't. 80f at Union Grove, WI. WTF!? It was pulling timing with my most aggressive tune so I drop it a degree in the middle and the top and it ran better. I assumed my mph would suffer a couple of mph and it did. But, I'm not sure if it was the heat or the tires. Probably both.

On 5 passes I averaged about what I did with the Mickeys; 1.65-1.70. The first couple sucked; 1.9 and a 1.8 but I had no idea where I'd end up on the tires. Started them about 18psi and ended up about 15psi. I saw mine on a video and they certainly don't budge, but narrow up and probably grow a tick.

Spun them a little on the first leave. Bogged on the second and started experimenting from there.

Practice, practice, practice.

The size may rob enough mph that I can't get the ET I'm looking for with my current power, but at the very least I'll be able to be more consistent. It's gonna take a pretty cold, dry day.

bj

Hey bj, have you seen the 17 inch skinny bogarts that go with that combo? They look good and takes weight off that heavy front end. I bet they would be a nice improvement.
Where is your bogart center cap on rear wheels?

Hey bj, have you seen the 17 inch skinny bogarts that go with that combo? They look good and takes weight off that heavy front end. I bet they would be a nice improvement.
Where is your bogart center cap on rear wheels?

Uh, yeah, but I'm all out of $1300 for a pair of wheels. They're nice. They would take about 50 lbs off the nose when you factor in the tires.

Rich didn't have any caps polished when they sent the wheels. They have a pair on the way.

bj

So what were your ET's BJ? My son was in the tower and he said 12.-ohs?? I said "That can't be right, you sure it wasn't 11.00's??
He said he didn't see you go 11's?? That would be .9 off your times from last year. That can't be correct.
The D/A wasn't great Friday, that's for sure. But it sounds like the change in diameter might hurt more than help. I've been thru this stuff over the years myself. I've run nearly identical times with my Cobra on slicks as I have on M/T drag radials. Ran slower MPH with the slicks with better 60 foots, and faster MPH with slightly worse 60's on DR's, but the ET's almost identical...

You need a good D/A day when there aren't so many street-tire cars there. I was told they were letting too many front-wheel drive cars go into the water box and the line was not that great. We were there yesterday, way less cars, and probably 22 degrees cooler...

I don't think Friday was a very good day to use the results. Toss 'em out and go back with better conditions.

So what were your ET's BJ? My son was in the tower and he said 12.-ohs?? I said "That can't be right, you sure it wasn't 11.00's??
He said he didn't see you go 11's?? That would be .9 off your times from last year. That can't be correct.
The D/A wasn't great Friday, that's for sure. But it sounds like the change in diameter might hurt more than help. I've been thru this stuff over the years myself. I've run nearly identical times with my Cobra on slicks as I have on M/T drag radials. Ran slower MPH with the slicks with better 60 foots, and faster MPH with slightly worse 60's on DR's, but the ET's almost identical...

You need a good D/A day when there aren't so many street-tire cars there. I was told they were letting too many front-wheel drive cars go into the water box and the line was not that great. We were there yesterday, way less cars, and probably 22 degrees cooler...

I don't think Friday was a very good day to use the results. Toss 'em out and go back with better conditions.


4 runs. First three averaged 11.6-ish. The last one was 12 and change, almost a 13 as I lifted. I was just working on a 60'. Wanted to do it one last time before I left. Apparently that's the one he saw.

DA was 1800 until late. Then the humidity got high. No excuses...I wasn't worried about ETs, in fact I pulled some timing out of the tune. 60 was the target for the evening and I was going to try to get into the deep 1.6's.

The big tires are killing my trap speed. I'm down 4 mph. Part of it could have been the weather, but it was more likely more tire than gear.

bj

4 runs. First three averaged 11.6-ish. The last one was 12 and change, almost a 13 as I lifted. I was just working on a 60'. Wanted to do it one last time before I left. Apparently that's the one he saw.

DA was 1800 until late. Then the humidity got high. No excuses...I wasn't worried about ETs, in fact I pulled some timing out of the tune. 60 was the target for the evening and I was going to try to get into the deep 1.6's.

The big tires are killing my trap speed. I'm down 4 mph. Part of it could have been the weather, but it was more likely more tire than gear.

bj

I knew that had to be wrong... I said "Michael, he could go 12.0 coasting from the 900' mark... " :silly:

Either way, Friday was NOT a good day to evaluate 60 foot times. Come to one of the NCSB races before eliminations and you'll see results like you desire.

How much did the tire setup cost you if I may ask?

How much did the tire setup cost you if I may ask?


Tires retail for $240 each.

Bogarts.....I don't know what they retail for. They're 15 x 10 Bolted GT's. You can call Bogart or if you want to pony up for a set of rears and skinnies it's about $2600.00 at Lethal and Evo. They're expensive and not for street use. Too thin. They'll bend and break if you smack potholes with them.

They require relocting the rear sway bar.

bj

Not interested. More power is simple and anyone can buy it. A little, a lot, your choice.

Why buy a canon when you can hit the X with a well placed pistol shot?


bj

Bragging Rights? :rofl:

What suspension mods have you done? i'm looking in to it!

What have you done to the rear end and axles? I think I am going to put the CJ 9" in mine.

I have busted spider gears once. Replace them and put a Detroit true trac w/ 4.10's. Then busted an axle with that setup. The broken axle chewed the end of the Detroit true trac up and made a hole in the carrier housing. Only lauching at 3000-3500rpm. Dumping the clutch.

Bragging Rights? :rofl:

Yup.

bj

What suspension mods have you done? i'm looking in to it!

What have you done to the rear end and axles? I think I am going to put the CJ 9" in mine.

I have busted spider gears once. Replace them and put a Detroit true trac w/ 4.10's. Then busted an axle with that setup. The broken axle chewed the end of the Detroit true trac up and made a hole in the carrier housing. Only lauching at 3000-3500rpm. Dumping the clutch.



BMR billet lowers.
Brackets.
J&M adjustable upper (not the race version).
D-specs.
FRPP springs.
4.10s in a stock 8.8
I don't dump the clutch

bj

BJ,
Do you know the backspacing on those rims by any chance? I am looking at these wheels http://www.racestarindustries.com/gallery.html
($425 for the pair with lug nuts)

They are dirt cheap, and I was told they will fit with relocation kit for swaybar. They are 15x10 with 7.5 b.s. Also wanted to know how those tires fit. No rubbing or any special mods to get them in there? I don't want to buy tires more than 1 time, so i'm trying to do all the homework I can.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

What suspension mods have you done? i'm looking in to it!

What have you done to the rear end and axles? I think I am going to put the CJ 9" in mine.

I have busted spider gears once. Replace them and put a Detroit true trac w/ 4.10's. Then busted an axle with that setup. The broken axle chewed the end of the Detroit true trac up and made a hole in the carrier housing. Only lauching at 3000-3500rpm. Dumping the clutch.

Dumping the clutch is not something you want to do, it's extremely hard on the driveline and is not really necessary. You just stress parts and make it more likely to destroy parts and burn your pressure plate and glaze your clutch disc. Your driving style is what is causing you to have to replace so many parts. You can get deep into the 1.6's with these heavy cars on a drag radial without stressing the driveline using proper clutch and go-pedal management.
Both my son and myself have operated the tower at Great lakes Dragaway (I've been involved in track operations for many years) and we'll typically see 1,000 or more passes per day. We'll watch some guys and say "He's gonna break that car before this day is over" and it's scary how often that proves to be the case as we see the car leave on a flatbed.
We see guys break cars that aren't that powerful, and we guys put up insane numbers with setups you would think would snap like a twig. The Cobra in my signature has been down the 1/4 mile more than 1000 times in 15 years. I NEVER rev it up and dump the clutch. I can get 1.6-flat 60's on crappy Nittos with as little as 3400 RPM and a "squeeze/release/mash the gas" technique that does not stress the driveline.
I've watched BJ run and have raced against him also and I don't see him do that "dump the clutch' thing either.

Cars that "dump the clutch" and don't break are setup properly and designed for that kind of launch. But truth be told, I've lined up plenty of times against cars like that and still beat them to the 60 foot beams. It's funny to hear the other guy bouncing off the rev-limiter as the staged light comes on and it makes me wince to think what he's doing to his driveline when he dumps that clutch.


Not intending to flame or insult you, just trying to save you some money on parts and towing charges... ;)

BJ,
Do you know the backspacing on those rims by any chance? I am looking at these wheels http://www.racestarindustries.com/gallery.html
($425 for the pair with lug nuts)

They are dirt cheap, and I was told they will fit with relocation kit for swaybar. They are 15x10 with 7.5 b.s. Also wanted to know how those tires fit. No rubbing or any special mods to get them in there? I don't want to buy tires more than 1 time, so i'm trying to do all the homework I can.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

Dave,

I don't know the backspacing on them. They're basically the same thing Evo and Lethal are selling in sets. It's the Bolted GT. Bogarts will cost you more but at 125 mph and then driving back home, I personally want all the history I can get and Rich has a bunch. You can get the backspacing of your stock wheels by going to Ford Racing Performance Parts and looking up your stock wheels amd their specs.

The issue here is not only backspacing, but clearing the oversized brakes.

The tires: M&H Racemaster drag radials. 325/50/15. I ran BFG DRs a couple of years ago....M/T 305/35/18s last year (which ran 1.60's btw, so they're good but I wanted more sidewall). The M&Hs are tall. 28" tall vs the 26.4" of the M/T so they will slow down your mph. Mine dropped by 3-4 mph every pass so far. It's taken me 10 or so passes just to get used to the extra height, rollout and getting these things moving. This is in spite of the fact that they're much lighter than the smaller Mickey's and the wheels are a ton lighter than the stockers.

Believe it or not, I didn't have to remove the bumpstops OR the strut dust covers! But you can't get a credit card between the fender lip and the tire when it launches. You MUST have adjustable struts or you're gonna rub.

Hope this helps.

bj

Dumping the clutch is not something you want to do, it's extremely hard on the driveline and is not really necessary. You just stress parts and make it more likely to destroy parts and burn your pressure plate and glaze your clutch disc. Your driving style is what is causing you to have to replace so many parts. You can get deep into the 1.6's with these heavy cars on a drag radial without stressing the driveline using proper clutch and go-pedal management.
Both my son and myself have operated the tower at Great lakes Dragaway (I've been involved in track operations for many years) and we'll typically see 1,000 or more passes per day. We'll watch some guys and say "He's gonna break that car before this day is over" and it's scary how often that proves to be the case as we see the car leave on a flatbed.
We see guys break cars that aren't that powerful, and we guys put up insane numbers with setups you would think would snap like a twig. The Cobra in my signature has been down the 1/4 mile more than 1000 times in 15 years. I NEVER rev it up and dump the clutch. I can get 1.6-flat 60's on crappy Nittos with as little as 3400 RPM and a "squeeze/release/mash the gas" technique that does not stress the driveline.
I've watched BJ run and have raced against him also and I don't see him do that "dump the clutch' thing either.

Cars that "dump the clutch" and don't break are setup properly and designed for that kind of launch. But truth be told, I've lined up plenty of times against cars like that and still beat them to the 60 foot beams. It's funny to hear the other guy bouncing off the rev-limiter as the staged light comes on and it makes me wince to think what he's doing to his driveline when he dumps that clutch.


Not intending to flame or insult you, just trying to save you some money on parts and towing charges... ;)

What he said.

I have 500+ passes on the stock clutch and all other items. Something will probably break soon just from wear, but not single-time stress. The car is 4 years old.

bj

BJ,
Do you know the backspacing on those rims by any chance? I am looking at these wheels http://www.racestarindustries.com/gallery.html
($425 for the pair with lug nuts)

They are dirt cheap, and I was told they will fit with relocation kit for swaybar. They are 15x10 with 7.5 b.s. Also wanted to know how those tires fit. No rubbing or any special mods to get them in there? I don't want to buy tires more than 1 time, so i'm trying to do all the homework I can.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

Dave, the reason People are buying the Bogarts is because they are the only skinny wheel that will fit over the large disc brakes in the front with out any modifactions. (wheel spacers, filing on brakes, switching to smaller mustang GT brakes, switching to after market brakes)

on a side note-I like your choice of wheel too.

croz98gt,
I know, but they are just too expensive for my "street" car, when I have so much other stuff to buy. They are working on a 17" front wheel, but don't know when it will be ready. I am just looking to hook up safely, and keep it off the wall. Can't wait to hit the track, nice, cool weather up here in New England :)

Dave

Thats the setup I need.

croz98gt,
I know, but they are just too expensive for my "street" car, when I have so much other stuff to buy. They are working on a 17" front wheel, but don't know when it will be ready. I am just looking to hook up safely, and keep it off the wall. Can't wait to hit the track, nice, cool weather up here in New England :)

Dave

Dave, thanks again. 17's aren't ready yet. I offered to be their beta tester. Note I didn't say "Crash Test Dummy"


bj

BJ,
You couldn't talk Mike into it? Oh well, they will be out pretty soon anyway. Do you have any pics or video of your whole car with the wheels on it? Trying to get an idea of how my car is going to sit. Do you have your car lowered, and if you do, how close are the tires to rubbing?

Dave

BJ,
You couldn't talk Mike into it? Oh well, they will be out pretty soon anyway. Do you have any pics or video of your whole car with the wheels on it? Trying to get an idea of how my car is going to sit. Do you have your car lowered, and if you do, how close are the tires to rubbing?

Dave

Lowered? Yes.

How close?
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/vnmous1gt500/th_grudge-4-11-10-sun-196.jpg (http://s765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/vnmous1gt500/?action=view&current=grudge-4-11-10-sun-196.jpg)

Keep in mind you're seeing the beginning of the torque shift, so there will be more room in the pic above. Here's what the other side looks like:

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/vnmous1gt500/th_grudge-4-11-10-sun-121.jpg (http://s765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/vnmous1gt500/?action=view&current=grudge-4-11-10-sun-121.jpg)

Lowered, on 15" Bogarts and 28" tires vs non-lowered on 20" wheels.
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/vnmous1gt500/th_grudge-4-11-10-sun-176.jpg (http://s765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/vnmous1gt500/?action=view&current=grudge-4-11-10-sun-176.jpg)

bj

WOW, those look sick! You using coilovers, or lowering springs? I am not lowered, so I sould be fine. They are huge,they don't rub at all? Looks real close in that second pic :)

Sorry for all the questions, and thanks for the pics,
Dave

WOW, those look sick! You using coilovers, or lowering springs? I am not lowered, so I sould be fine. They are huge,they don't rub at all? Looks real close in that second pic :)

Sorry for all the questions, and thanks for the pics,
Dave

FRPP lowering springs and D-Specs. I run the struts at about 4 turns out from full hard.

Nope, they don't rub. But you couldn't put dental floss in there.

28" tall, 11" wide.

bj

When do you run your new best? Very good for the mods you have. Do you have a new goal now? Also explained your launch technique again if you don't mind. Tks for the assistance.

When do you run your new best? Very good for the mods you have. Do you have a new goal now? Also explained your launch technique again if you don't mind. Tks for the assistance.

Last week.

I don't know of anyone that's done it on a stock blower and drag radials. It's been done on slicks before. If you look at Dragtimes.com, or any of the forums, everyone above my car on the ranker has a ported or aftermarket blower and/or slicks.

No new goal.

Launch? Varies according to condiditons. The one common thing is that I never simply dump the clutch. Otherwise, everything else varies. Suspension settings, tire pressures, rpm at launch, etc.

bj