Well, Dodge has gone and done it again.

http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000270066570/
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/n...ncept-car/1554/

The Challenger is coming back, with a 6.4 Hemi (not 6.1). 510+ horses stock, no blower.

The GT500, while it will be the fastest muscle car for a year or two, won't be when this MONSTER comes out. We're talking low-mid 12s in this thing, with a Mercedes-based chassis & suspension to boot.

Good grief.

I'll take one, thank you... after I sell the house & wife.

Yeah, but as always... Ford leads the way in innovation. Ford builds/creates a great vehicle and everyone copies.

Same thing applies to trucks. GM's not so bad but DCX pretty much waits for Ford's product then tries to 1-up it 2-3 model years later.

It'll be great if the Challenger and/or Camaro get built but there's something special about owning the original - IMO.


Well, Dodge has gone and done it again.

http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000270066570/
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/n...ncept-car/1554/

The Challenger is coming back, with a 6.4 Hemi (not 6.1). 510+ horses stock, no blower.

The GT500, while it will be the fastest muscle car for a year or two, won't be when this MONSTER comes out. We're talking low-mid 12s in this thing, with a Mercedes-based chassis & suspension to boot.

Good grief.

I'll take one, thank you... after I sell the house & wife.

Blue Oval what are you talking about? Both dodge and ford trucks stayed the same for many years until dodge redesigned the ram in 1994, Ford followed in 1997. Dodge redesigned in 2002 and ford followed in 2004. So if anyone is trying to "one up the other" it is ford. Too bad they just aren't doing a very good job at it. Why is it that when ford wants more power out of an engine they slap a supercharger on it. Give me a 425hp n/a engine over a 450hp supercharged engine anyday. You get a smoother power curve and the ability to upgrade it. As far as the challenger goes I think it will be able to take the GT in a drag race, but won't be able to touch the GT in handling.

Bottom line is this, Chrysler products are horrible. Shouldn't we keep this debate between the last two US auto companies?

Chrysler is merged with Mercedes which is a foreign company. Ford has mazda, volvo, jaguar, land rover, and aston martin which are all foreign companies. So if you say Chrysler isn't American then you would definately have to say the same about Ford. Please people do a little research before you post.

Whoa!!! Whoa!!! Dodge built crap for 20+ years before they started building quality again in the 90's. It cracks me up that the Dodge people act like they never stopped building quality automobiles. The entire Chrysler nameplate would be nothing if not for Daimler anyway. I believe it was a foregone conclusion that Daimler would rebuild the Chrysler nameplates. Those people (Daimler) always put out quality autos.

Working from memory:
F Series trucks have had major renovations per the following schedule:

Pre - 1981, uh, I don't remember ;)
1981-1986
1987-1996
1997-2003
2004 - Present

Dodge trucks were basically the same (ugly) from 1972-1993, these were known as the "Lifestyle" trucks. I may be wrong on this but I'm pretty certain they never did more than cosmetic changes for years. My memory fades on that because you really never saw anybody driving one.

If Dodge is the leader, why wasn't the SRT10 out before the Lightning? What about this "Challenger"? Appropriately named I think - Challenger, one who "challenges" the champion. When it comes to "Pony" cars and trucks, Ford is the leader - no doubt.

Why do you think they call them "Pony" cars?

Oh, hahahahaha, why is a 425HP n/a engine better than a 450HP blown engine??? Is it because DCX can't figure out how to properly tune a blown engine? 425HP at 400-500 Cubic Inches, too. Big friggin' whoop. I'm more impressed with 450HP out of 331 CI than I am with 500HP out of 500CI. I mentioned this on another thread but you pay a premium to get all that N/A HP.

There are 450RWHP+ 4.6L Mustangs all over the place and that's a 281 cubic inch motor.

But... we could go on forever about this I suppose. ...and, I must admit, I thought this was a "Ford" board because of the domain name. All I see our DCX trolls though. My bad.




Blue Oval what are you talking about? Both dodge and ford trucks stayed the same for many years until dodge redesigned the ram in 1994, Ford followed in 1997. Dodge redesigned in 2002 and ford followed in 2004. So if anyone is trying to "one up the other" it is ford. Too bad they just aren't doing a very good job at it. Why is it that when ford wants more power out of an engine they slap a supercharger on it. Give me a 425hp n/a engine over a 450hp supercharged engine anyday. You get a smoother power curve and the ability to upgrade it. As far as the challenger goes I think it will be able to take the GT in a drag race, but won't be able to touch the GT in handling.

Ok, quick lesson:

Chrysler didn't MERGE with anybody. It got OWNED by Daimler Benz. Period.

Ford didn't MERGE with anybody. It OWNS Volvo, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Mazda, Land Rover, etc.



Chrysler is merged with Mercedes which is a foreign company. Ford has mazda, volvo, jaguar, land rover, and aston martin which are all foreign companies. So if you say Chrysler isn't American then you would definately have to say the same about Ford. Please people do a little research before you post.

^so the entire Chrysler nameplate would be nothing without the Germans, huh.....tell that to Bob Lutz when he ok'd the Viper before the merger, and before going to GM.

Very, very few cars kept the muscle car craze alive till now, it was a combination of GM, Ford, and Chrsyler at different times, now that everyone is back in the game, some may want to take ALL of the credit.

I'm just thankful for what we've got now, and will support them all in hopes that it continues...well, 'til they rev up on me on the street that is.

Well, Dodge has gone and done it again.

http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000270066570/
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/n...ncept-car/1554/

The Challenger is coming back, with a 6.4 Hemi (not 6.1). 510+ horses stock, no blower.

The GT500, while it will be the fastest muscle car for a year or two, won't be when this MONSTER comes out. We're talking low-mid 12s in this thing, with a Mercedes-based chassis & suspension to boot.

Good grief.

I'll take one, thank you... after I sell the house & wife.That's not what I heard the 6.4l 500+ hp hemi is aftermarket only,and I just came back from the 2006 Detroit Auto Show(NAIAS),....and the dcx reps stated that the srt-8 version of the challenger will only have the 425hp 6.1l version in it when released......So,....Ford Shelby GT-500 Mustang wins again!!;) :D :cool: Plus the challenger won't have a solid rear axle for quick gear changes and the weight will be close to 4100lbs.Plus blower motors have alot more potential to gaining more HP,then a maxed out high compression non-blown engine.;) The Shelby GT-500 will be 475++ hp...and alot of potential to gain more.

^nobody knows for sure, but my guy who I've used over the years had been advised of the Challe 392, and he told me about it..It can happen...Now the great thing is, he reps for both Dodge and Ford among others, and he always sells to me below sticker....waiting on a list just means you'd like to pay well above sticker, good luck with that. p.s. you're not getting #1...when I'm ready to purchase, I'll pay below sticker thanks, and I may put that offer out to others in my area at that time.

Here is a link to the chrysler-mercedes MERGER http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/americas/9805/07/benz.chrysler.merger/

but hey I'll go with what you say blue oval then I can tell everyone I drive a Mercedes Ram.

I'll admit the late 70's and 80's were bad for dodge, but who weren't they bad for. Come on a 4cyl mustang. No auto makers put out an outstanding vehicle, just a bunch of decent vehicles. You can't hold that against them forever.

As far as them all trying to one up each other. They all do it. I've seen plenty of ford ads that mention chevy and dodge. I personally thank them for trying to one up each other, it makes the vehicles better. Could you imagine the vehicles that we would have if they didn't care what else was out there.

The lightning wasn't the first performance truck. Dodge put out "The Dude" in the 70's. Speaking of the lightning where is it now?

The reason I would rather have a n/a engine over a blown engine is quite simple. Look at the Hennessy viper 900 horse power, try doing that to a 331ci engine and see if it lasts over 5 min. Why do you think they use big blocks in top fuel dragsters. It's not hard to understand the bigger the engine the higher the top power can be. WHy couldn't dodge tune a blown engine, anyone can slap a blower on an engine and make it work, just needs more fuel which is easy to figure out.

How many people change there gears alot in a production vehicle.

I really wouldn't say I'm a dodge person out of the 3 vehicles I own 2 are chevy's. I realize this is a ford forum, but to say any one company just copies another one is just ignorance. They all do it and it makes everone's lives better.

I agree with Polar Bear 100%

The Hennessy Viper.

Now, how much does that cost? A 650R is advertised at ~$105,000.

http://www.venomviper.com/

Do you think that with that budget, the right person couldn't build a Ford product to go just as fast? What's the 1/4mi time in that Hennessy Viper? I've seen modded 4.6L Mustangs run 8.6 - 8.9s 1/4's. Not much slower than that Viper I bet and a lot cheaper.

Don't belittle those "little" Ford engines too much. They'll surprise you.

Last Ford Lightning I saw was toasting an SRT-10 at the local 1/8mi strip.

Come to think of it, last modded 6.0 Powerstroke F250 I saw was toasting that same SRT-10 at the same 1/8mi track.

Daimler went to great extremes for Chrysler to maintain its American identity - just as Toyota goes to great pains to brand itself as "American" - that's why that "merger" is worded that way.

Oh, I know (and have seen the vehicle) a guy who has a 5.4L (331CI) engine what puts out about ~700RWHP - that's REAR WHEEL HP. It's a built racing engine of course.

Brad Barnett's site reported that a pre-production GT500 dyno'd at 638RWHP. CAI, tune, and an exhaust. He's considered very reliable.

Personally, when I get my GT500, the HP's going up because I will mod it to my liking. ..and will gladly take on all "challengers" as long as it's all done in the name of good, clean fun.

I didn't mean for this to turn into a flame contest and I apologize if it did. We each have our own way of thinking and that's just the way it is. I DO respect your opinion but will defend my Ford turf :)


Here is a link to the chrysler-mercedes MERGER http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/americas/9805/07/benz.chrysler.merger/

but hey I'll go with what you say blue oval then I can tell everyone I drive a Mercedes Ram.

I'll admit the late 70's and 80's were bad for dodge, but who weren't they bad for. Come on a 4cyl mustang. No auto makers put out an outstanding vehicle, just a bunch of decent vehicles. You can't hold that against them forever.

As far as them all trying to one up each other. They all do it. I've seen plenty of ford ads that mention chevy and dodge. I personally thank them for trying to one up each other, it makes the vehicles better. Could you imagine the vehicles that we would have if they didn't care what else was out there.

The lightning wasn't the first performance truck. Dodge put out "The Dude" in the 70's. Speaking of the lightning where is it now?

The reason I would rather have a n/a engine over a blown engine is quite simple. Look at the Hennessy viper 900 horse power, try doing that to a 331ci engine and see if it lasts over 5 min. Why do you think they use big blocks in top fuel dragsters. It's not hard to understand the bigger the engine the higher the top power can be. WHy couldn't dodge tune a blown engine, anyone can slap a blower on an engine and make it work, just needs more fuel which is easy to figure out.

How many people change there gears alot in a production vehicle.

I really wouldn't say I'm a dodge person out of the 3 vehicles I own 2 are chevy's. I realize this is a ford forum, but to say any one company just copies another one is just ignorance. They all do it and it makes everone's lives better.

I agree with Polar Bear 100%

^nobody knows for sure, but my guy who I've used over the years had been advised of the Challe 392, and he told me about it..It can happen...Now the great thing is, he reps for both Dodge and Ford among others, and he always sells to me below sticker....waiting on a list just means you'd like to pay well above sticker, good luck with that. p.s. you're not getting #1...when I'm ready to purchase, I'll pay below sticker thanks, and I may put that offer out to others in my area at that time.Brother,....Can you hook me up with that deal? I'm in the northeast.

Brad Barnett's site reported that a pre-production GT500 dyno'd at 638RWHP. CAI, tune, and an exhaust. He's considered very reliable.

Personally, when I get my GT500, the HP's going up because I will mod it to my liking. ..and will gladly take on all "challengers" as long as it's all done in the name of good, clean fun.
I totally agree brother!!!.....And I heard the same from Brad....and trust me,....He is very very reliable on his word. I'll take this s/c engine anyday to kick some serious butt,....and rumors are from brad,....that this is only the beginning,...as there is alot more HP to be had from this beast!!!;) :D :cool:

Brother,....Can you hook me up with that deal? I'm in the northeast.

Of course...I'm in PA....when they come out, my guy will hook you up...he has people from all up and down the east coast come to him. PM me later this year or next or when you're ready to buy and if I'm not ready yet, I'll still give you his number.

...stay off the lists...buy some gas with that money...

No need for research here. I simply know what I am talking about and since you have already been spanked by other forum members... I'll leave you alone. :p

Well, Dodge has gone and done it again.

http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000270066570/
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/n...ncept-car/1554/

The Challenger is coming back, with a 6.4 Hemi (not 6.1). 510+ horses stock, no blower.

The GT500, while it will be the fastest muscle car for a year or two, won't be when this MONSTER comes out. We're talking low-mid 12s in this thing, with a Mercedes-based chassis & suspension to boot.

Good grief.

I'll take one, thank you... after I sell the house & wife.First,...the new challenger is only coming with the 425hp in the srt-8 version(not the 6.4l 500hp one,that is strickly a crate engine from mopar).:rolleyes: Second,...You can do alot more hp upgrades with a motor built with lower compression supercharged motor,...than you can with a higher compression non s/c engine.....example,...I could just add a different pulley,tune and exhaust and have instant at least 600++hp for not that much cost. Game over!...you also need to take that mustang avatar off,the way your talking,..you don't deserve it.:p ;) :D

First,...the new challenger is only coming with the 425hp in the srt-8 version(not the 6.4l 500hp one,that is strickly a crate engine from mopar).:rolleyes: Second,...You can do alot more hp upgrades with a motor built with lower compression supercharged motor,...than you can with a higher compression non s/c engine.....example,...I could just add a different pulley,tune and exhaust and have instant at least 600++hp for not that much cost. Game over!...you also need to take that mustang avatar off,the way your talking,..you don't deserve it.:p ;) :D

Yeah, it sounds like DCX pulled the plug on the 6.4 deal... haven't been in here in awhile, hence its dated info.

Make no mistake, I LOVE my Mustang GT... and would LOVE to get a GT500... but there's NO WAY 95% of the GT500 fans would EVER afford one. Ford's going to produce, what, 20,000 GT500's?!?! I've heard rumors that its going to actually sell for $70-80,000. COME ON! There's NO WAY I'd pay that much for a mustang. Anyone that would is nuts (and insanely rich).

So the selling price alone makes this car quasi-exotic and in the same price range as 911s, and more than a new Z06... which puts it in a class (at least with the Z06) that it can't be top dog - stock.

So, in the grand scheme of things, what's the point of having a MUSTANG (an average guy's muscle car) that the average guy will never afford?!?!

There is no point in it at all. Only the rich will own this car... the same people that can afford the Porsches, etc.

They've effectively taken a car that should be affordable to most, and made it unattainable because of its limited production... might as well druel over Ferrari's... same pipe-dream.

Dodge did do it right with their SRT lineup... they're building enough of these cars to limit dealer markups and eventually, for all intents and purposes, eliminate the markups.

So, what it comes down to is, if you want a 400hp American muscle car, but don't want to/can't spend over $45,000 (including markup), you'll only have one brand: Dodge... who'll offer the Charger SRT8, Challenger SRT8 (if produced) & Jeep GC SRT8 (SUV obviously). Sure, there are places that are marking these cars up to the roof, but in other areas, they're selling at MSRP.

Yeah, it sounds like DCX pulled the plug on the 6.4 deal... haven't been in here in awhile, hence its dated info.

Make no mistake, I LOVE my Mustang GT... and would LOVE to get a GT500... but there's NO WAY 95% of the GT500 fans would EVER afford one. Ford's going to produce, what, 20,000 GT500's?!?! I've heard rumors that its going to actually sell for $70-80,000. COME ON! There's NO WAY I'd pay that much for a mustang. Anyone that would is nuts (and insanely rich).

So the selling price alone makes this car quasi-exotic and in the same price range as 911s, and more than a new Z06... which puts it in a class (at least with the Z06) that it can't be top dog - stock.

So, in the grand scheme of things, what's the point of having a MUSTANG (an average guy's muscle car) that the average guy will never afford?!?!

There is no point in it at all. Only the rich will own this car... the same people that can afford the Porsches, etc.

They've effectively taken a car that should be affordable to most, and made it unattainable because of its limited production... might as well druel over Ferrari's... same pipe-dream.

Dodge did do it right with their SRT lineup... they're building enough of these cars to limit dealer markups and eventually, for all intents and purposes, eliminate the markups.

So, what it comes down to is, if you want a 400hp American muscle car, but don't want to/can't spend over $45,000 (including markup), you'll only have one brand: Dodge... who'll offer the Charger SRT8, Challenger SRT8 (if produced) & Jeep GC SRT8 (SUV obviously). Sure, there are places that are marking these cars up to the roof, but in other areas, they're selling at MSRP.
You are soo misinformed again,its not even funny...and you listen to,...too many rumors! Shelby GT500 is the only way to go(I'm getting mine for MSRP,...the other cars you mention,..except maybe the challenger,...are all ugly 4 dr. family sedans....NO Thanks!

You are soo misinformed again,its not even funny...and you listen to,...too many rumors! Shelby GT500 is the only way to go(I'm getting mine for MSRP,...the other cars you mention,..except maybe the challenger,...are all ugly 4 dr. family sedans....NO Thanks!

You're getting yours at MSRP? Where?

I'm not arguing that the GT500 is awesome... but unless the dealer markup rumors are false, I stand my ground on the issue.

Ford should produce this car in quantity... and make a killing off of it in the process... they are hurting for cash, no?!?!

BTW: in what ways am I misinformed from the post we're discussing herein?!?! About MSRP? I'd need to see a verifiable receipt to believe it. Plus, if you can prove it, HOOK ME UP, damnit!

***You work for Ford, though, don't you?!?!*** That would change YOUR perspective on pricing.

I work for FORD and I can't get it for MSRP.I work at the mustang plant and can't get it for MSRP.I keep reading in all these posts about you and MSRP.Come on give us a dealership name,city,country,state or even a planet.I have driven the car I know what a bad car it is,but can't get it for MSRP.

I work for FORD and I can't get it for MSRP.I work at the mustang plant and can't get it for MSRP.I keep reading in all these posts about you and MSRP.Come on give us a dealership name,city,country,state or even a planet.I have driven the car I know what a bad car it is,but can't get it for MSRP.I don't know who you know over at Ford,...but someone is BS'n you somewhere.You need to get a better contact if your working at Ford,....maybe write a letter to Bill Ford,..as what you have stated,..just isn't right what their doing to you guys.:eek: ;) :D :cool:

I got on board a long time ago.You keep saying it's not FORD it's the greedy dealerships.I've been at Ford for 20 years.Put a deposit down over a year ago with a one of the most reputable dealerships in the nation.The dealership would give it to me on the "A" plan but FORD won't give it to me.The dealership has to sell whatever product FORD makes.Rebates have been killing FORD.This is an oppurtunity for the dealership to make some profit.I am not saying it is right but that is the way it is.Getting on board over a year ago gave me the opportunity to buy 1 which most people won't be able to do.Still can't get it for MSRP.If you have this deal give me a dealership name.Let me make my own deal.Why won't you tell us?It must be a big secret society.

I got on board a long time ago.You keep saying it's not FORD it's the greedy dealerships.I've been at Ford for 20 years.Put a deposit down over a year ago with a one of the most reputable dealerships in the nation.The dealership would give it to me on the "A" plan but FORD won't give it to me.The dealership has to sell whatever product FORD makes.Rebates have been killing FORD.This is an oppurtunity for the dealership to make some profit.I am not saying it is right but that is the way it is.Getting on board over a year ago gave me the opportunity to buy 1 which most people won't be able to do.Still can't get it for MSRP.If you have this deal give me a dealership name.Let me make my own deal.Why won't you tell us?It must be a big secret society.Tell US?!!Whose us?!! I can't get that many!! Don't get cocky Jack!!...you better find some respect real quick,...as I owe you nothing.:mad: :rolleyes:. I personally know these guys(friends of mine thru my racing of 25 years) and you can't do squat on your own with them,but be on a waiting list for the msrp,that they'll sell for,....but being I personnally know them,sometimes they give me the opportunity to buy the cancellation orders before going next on list.They take no bribe money to move up list either,strickly msrp. I was going to talk to them to see if they had cancellations on the lists(as the lists are long),..if I could pick those up also(but its late in the game,I don't know), and help someone out,who could appreciate it!...And obviously Ford is not selling these cars on the "A" Plan...get Real!!:rolleyes:...I meant through maybe ford contacts you could find a cool dealer to sell you one for msrp....and the good news is,"now that you told me",.....that at least you found one (even though it might not be msrp)but you have an opportunity to buy one, congratulations!!.... I will then try and help someone nice who has no opportunity and who can't get one at all. And as I said before,...its got nothing to do with Ford,its the greedy dealers that suck(they'll tell you anything as they hike up the price over msrp)Don't believe them!!!,...and I would never buy a car from those dealers....Ever!!

Thanks for editing your last post,calling people names is not very nice.I am not going to stoop to your level so I will be civil.As far as respect goes you need to earn that,which you haven't!Whose us you ask.I have asked,I know Mustang Sally has asked in another thread.That's right you owe me nothing.I am not asking you for anything.People here in the forum asked you what dealership and you get rude.We are all happy for you that you get such a good deal.The rest of us are not so fortunate.Maybe the next guy you help out can tell us he got 1 for MSRP then there will be 2 of you.

Sally sorry to bust your bubble but I was told I would recieve one at MSRP also, I have the dealers signature along with my deposit (#1), and I dont even know turbo. Good luck, but dont hate the player hate the game.

Sally sorry to bust your bubble but I was told I would recieve one at MSRP also, I have the dealers signature along with my deposit (#1), and I dont even know turbo. Good luck, but dont hate the player hate the game.Ahhhh,...finally a voice of reason.....Very well put, my brother!;) :D

Thanks for editing your last post,calling people names is not very nice.I am not going to stoop to your level so I will be civil.As far as respect goes you need to earn that,which you haven't!Whose us you ask.I have asked,I know Mustang Sally has asked in another thread.That's right you owe me nothing.I am not asking you for anything.People here in the forum asked you what dealership and you get rude.We are all happy for you that you get such a good deal.The rest of us are not so fortunate.Maybe the next guy you help out can tell us he got 1 for MSRP then there will be 2 of you.Stoop to my level?!...I think ya got it backwards! No Problem!...And if you show respect,...you'll get respect back.;) As I have stated,I will help out others who will appreciate it....and I hope you enjoy the one you have the opportunity to get.;) peace.:cool:

The proof is in the pudding. Post us your reciept after you get it for MSRP and everyone will shut up. (Although I have a sneaking suspicion that will never happen!) I'm not hating, I'm just realistic. Peace!

The comment about "what's the point of a mustang that the average guy can't afford" is a little misguided, because the average guy can't afford a $200K 1967 Shelby either! The point is not that everyone can get one (otherwise it wouldn't be as desirable). I used to dream of saving up enough to get a 67 Shelby, but now I want a 07 Shelby for the same reason. Not becuase it's the most bang for the buck, but because it's the american dream, baby!

The comment about "what's the point of a mustang that the average guy can't afford" is a little misguided, because the average guy can't afford a $200K 1967 Shelby either! The point is not that everyone can get one (otherwise it wouldn't be as desirable). I used to dream of saving up enough to get a 67 Shelby, but now I want a 07 Shelby for the same reason. Not becuase it's the most bang for the buck, but because it's the american dream, baby!

Sure, being a millionaire is the American dream... but, it is, in reality, a DREAM... not reality.

--- The comment about "what's the point of a mustang that the average guy can't afford" is a little misguided, because the average guy can't afford a $200K 1967 Shelby either! --- this is NOT a misguided statement... the Mustang represents the average guy's performance machine, not a few, wealthy people's toy... the point IS, in fact, that if you can afford one at MSRP, you SHOULD be able to obtain one, otherwise, it shouldn't be a Mustang; because once again, the Mustang is all about AVAILABLE and ACCESSIBLE performance for the average American. The whole concept of the value of a 67 Shelby in today's market is misguided... the car never sold for anywhere near $200K in 1967. Contemporary availability and accessibility to the average guy... that's what Mustang has always been about.

NOW, Ford shtcans SVT... humm... nice move, huh?!?! Just when the 'new' musclecars are starting to kick off... bright move, huh?!?! I own an 06 GT, but have to say, am VERY disappointed in Ford.

After the GT500s are sold, only DCX will offer a true muscle car... AND, these DCX cars will be affordable, available and accessible to the average guy... humm... makes you wonder why Dodge is NOT having financial difficulties, huh?!?!

Ford has effectively screwed the average Ford performance buyers with these blunders of marketing, production and allocations (manpower and #s produced).

Dodge has just earned a future customer in me.

Well put. I couldn't agree with you more. But I will still have a GT500. Maybe I'll trade my Roush in on the challenger when it comes out.

Mustang Sally,
That's great that you're switching to Dodge. Buy up all the cheap chargers and challengers you want. That'll leave one more GT500 for those of us who accept no imitations! We'll check the resale value in 10 years and see who made the right call!! :-)

Mustang Sally,
That's great that you're switching to Dodge. Buy up all the cheap chargers and challengers you want. That'll leave one more GT500 for those of us who accept no imitations! We'll check the resale value in 10 years and see who made the right call!! :-)

In all honesty, the hemi muscle cars have gotten more at auction than anyother car of that ilk... this, according to a show on Barrett Auctions, in Scottsdale...

With all due respect, 95% of the people on this board will never be able to afford a new GT500 anyway... so should they NOT own ANY muscle car?!?!? Or should they get one, even if its not built by Ford?!?!? I could never afford to pay the MSRP + the anticipated mark-up on the GT500... so, should I just not own a 400+ hp car?!?!?!

In all honesty, the hemi muscle cars have gotten more at auction than anyother car of that ilk... this, according to a show on Barrett Auctions, in Scottsdale...

With all due respect, 95% of the people on this board will never be able to afford a new GT500 anyway... so should they NOT own ANY muscle car?!?!? Or should they get one, even if its not built by Ford?!?!? I could never afford to pay the MSRP + the anticipated mark-up on the GT500... so, should I just not own a 400+ hp car?!?!?!

Mustang GT discounted to $27K plus Vortech puffer $5k plus $1k labor equals 400+ hp Mustang. Very doable!

Mustang GT discounted to $27K plus Vortech puffer $5k plus $1k labor equals 400+ hp Mustang. Very doable!

True, but some of us rely upon a warranty.

If I ever buy another Ford, those yahoos best come forth and actually produce this rumored BOSS Mustang and produce it in enough numbers so that this ridiculous markup crap doesn't hit us hard. I'd be VERY satisfied with a 5.4 no-blower Mustang...

Think about it... performance close to that of the GT500, but for a price $20,000+/- less than the GT500. I'm actually beginning to think that the "BOSS" Mustang actually SOUNDS a little cooler than GT500... sounds more... threatening.

Whoa!!! Whoa!!! Dodge built crap for 20+ years before they started building quality again in the 90's. It cracks me up that the Dodge people act like they never stopped building quality automobiles. The entire Chrysler nameplate would be nothing if not for Daimler anyway. I believe it was a foregone conclusion that Daimler would rebuild the Chrysler nameplates. Those people (Daimler) always put out quality autos.

Working from memory:
F Series trucks have had major renovations per the following schedule:

Pre - 1981, uh, I don't remember ;)
1981-1986
1987-1996
1997-2003
2004 - Present

Dodge trucks were basically the same (ugly) from 1972-1993, these were known as the "Lifestyle" trucks. I may be wrong on this but I'm pretty certain they never did more than cosmetic changes for years. My memory fades on that because you really never saw anybody driving one.

If Dodge is the leader, why wasn't the SRT10 out before the Lightning? What about this "Challenger"? Appropriately named I think - Challenger, one who "challenges" the champion. When it comes to "Pony" cars and trucks, Ford is the leader - no doubt.


This is my first post on this forum and I felt compelled to respond to this thread. I am obviously a fan of Mopars, but that doesnt mean I dont like Fords and GMs. I came to this forum for information about a car that I would be interested in buying, what I found were a couple people that take brand loyalty a little too seriously. Half my family works for Ford and it is because of there employment that I know Ford is just like any other manufacturer...meaning that they build quality products right along side shit. Quality control for the big 3 has been about the same for the last 20 years. Every manufacturer always encounters problems, so saying another brand is garbage "just cause" is utterly stupid. To say that Dodge copies off of Ford is even more stupid. EVERY car company copies off another in some aspect. Sure Dodge is jumping on the bandwagon and building a pony car, but didnt Ford do the same thing when they built the Ford GT? As for your arguement about the Lightning, I hate to tell you this but dodge built a muscle truck in 1964, they built another one in 1970, again in 1978, yet again in 1998, and finally built the SRT10 in 2004. Hell even GM beat Ford to the muscle truck scene with their Cyclone. This doesnt make Ford a bad company that copies off others, it just means that they had to play catchup in that certain area. I am not even going to bother to argue cubic inches versus forced induction debate because it is pretty much an opinion to which is better. Ohh and the reason you keep getting replies from DCX "trolls" is because us "trolls" are overwhelmed that someone can believe their opinions are infallible.

With all due respect, 95% of the people on this board will never be able to afford a new GT500 anyway... so should they NOT own ANY muscle car?!?!?


I am on my 3rd Cobra and the GT500, WHICH I MIGHT BUY, will technically be my 4th. I am going to keep my '98 as well to be a daily driver. My point, I have always tried to buy the top of the Mustang line. Sally, I do understand your point about the Mustang being a muscle car for the "average" American, but that is why they make V6's. To say that 95% of the people on this forum can't afford a GT500 is ridiculous. As a matter of fact if I couldn't afford the car, along with what I would imagine are MOST of the people on this forum, I wouldn't be on this forum. This is not to say you shouldn't be here, but I love Ferraris but am not on any forums because they are out of my reach. This forum is dedicated to the GT500 and I am HAPPY that I am on a list, that a list is necessary for MOST people to purchase this car, and that it is out of reach of many. Sorry if I sound arrogant but I was ready to buy a 911 because I wanted a head turner, now I can get the Shelby and still remain brand and line loyal.

As for this debate over big block versus small block. Ford is ahead of the curve. Push-rod V8's require much more smog control equipment to remain emissions compliant. Ford went to the modular knowing that it was in their best interest for the future of their gasoline powered vehicles.

"The roots of the Modular movement can be traced back to the late-'80s, to a time when Ford was looking for improved engines for its cars and trucks. While the last pushrod V-8 engines of the mid-'90s provided power and reliability, Ford was looking for a way to improve the overall performance of its engine lineup. This meant smoother-running engines with less noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH), better sealing, lower internal friction, along with increased fuel economy, increased longevity, less maintenance and all without sacrificing power. And let's not forget lower emissions. In addition, Ford engineers wanted an engine family that could share machining procedures and tooling as this would reduce costs". (source MMFF)

GM and DODGE better get with the program soon. So for now enjoy their high horsepower, big displacement engines, until they are FORCED to make the change.