VMP TVS or Ford Racing 2.9 Whipple for 2011 [Archive] - Ford Shelby Cobra GT500 Forum

: VMP TVS or Ford Racing 2.9 Whipple for 2011


aso544
08-30-2011, 02:18 PM
Rather than resurect an old thread i'll use a new one. If you are certain that 700 RWHP is all you will want and your only mod beyond the the supercharger kit will be widened wheels with wider stickier tires.....and maybe a new dual fan HE, which kit would you prefer and why?

Cobra Fred
08-30-2011, 08:23 PM
In short go VMP. I had this diecision to make a while back. Ford wanted to have the blower installed then they would determine later what the tune would be and send it to the Dealer. The custom hands on Justin approach was the right diecision. I have 5K miles on my 2011 since the mod with perfect experience. You also must add the inner cooler with twin fans. Heat is the mind keller.

2011SVT
08-31-2011, 09:33 AM
From a technical perceptive, either will do ya.

I liked the visual appeal of the polished Whipple under the hood.

Knight
09-01-2011, 07:15 PM
+1 for VMP

quorum
09-01-2011, 11:35 PM
Here's the thing.. the VMP TVS Supercharger uses the same 2.3L TVS unit from Eaton. This same unit is available from Ford Racing Parts Direct for a song. However I spoke with both Ford Racing Parts Direct and my local SVT authorized service center and both said that this Eaton 2.3L won't work on the 2011 GT500.

That said, I did read on the vmp website of someone installing this very same unit on a 2011. So I'm confused.

The other problem is that the TVS is only competitive with the Whipple because it involves a pulley swap to crank the pressure to 17PSI - which is the same as what the Whipple achieves with the stock pulley. In other words, the TVS is running harder and hotter to achieve the same boost as the Whipple.

On the Ford Racing Parts Direct is the 2.9L Whipple that is priced the same as the TVS unit. It is "authorized" to work with the 2011. It is a more sophisticated design, more efficient and runs cooler.

The choice is obvious in my opinion.

2010 Red & White
09-02-2011, 07:24 AM
I went with the 2.9L Whipple and so far very happy with that choice. The 2.9L Whipple leaves you room for even more than 700 RWHP when the urge strikes you down the road to add a little more !!

Snake Doc
09-03-2011, 10:59 AM
Here's the thing.. the VMP TVS Supercharger uses the same 2.3L TVS unit from Eaton. This same unit is available from Ford Racing Parts Direct for a song. However I spoke with both Ford Racing Parts Direct and my local SVT authorized service center and both said that this Eaton 2.3L won't work on the 2011 GT500.

That said, I did read on the vmp website of someone installing this very same unit on a 2011. So I'm confused.

The other problem is that the TVS is only competitive with the Whipple because it involves a pulley swap to crank the pressure to 17PSI - which is the same as what the Whipple achieves with the stock pulley. In other words, the TVS is running harder and hotter to achieve the same boost as the Whipple.

On the Ford Racing Parts Direct is the 2.9L Whipple that is priced the same as the TVS unit. It is "authorized" to work with the 2011. It is a more sophisticated design, more efficient and runs cooler.

The choice is obvious in my opinion.

Cobra Fred posted above that he went with VMP/TVS and to clear things up a bit, Fred's GT500 is in fact a 2011. You can't see that dyno sheet, but his car put 488hp on the ground bone stock, and 641hp with the VMP TVS (and Cobra Jet throttle body). Justin did the install and tune in just a couple of hours at the Shelby Fest back in April.

When I get around to increasing my hp, I'll most likely be looking to Justin & VMP. A very impressive young man! :banana_hitit:

Nitemare
09-03-2011, 02:51 PM
+1 Justin's 2.3 is ported and polished

Sleestack
09-04-2011, 08:42 AM
In short go VMP. I had this diecision to make a while back. Ford wanted to have the blower installed then they would determine later what the tune would be and send it to the Dealer. The custom hands on Justin approach was the right diecision. I have 5K miles on my 2011 since the mod with perfect experience. You also must add the inner cooler with twin fans. Heat is the mind keller.

Yes, if the end target is 650Rwhp, the TVS is a sound decision. It makes better torque down low but does not have the big HP at high RPMs of the big twins. That is what sold me on the TVS as a selection, since I drive alot more at 2k RPMs to 5k, than above 5k. The TVS also seems to be a better overall 'fit'. No rubbing on the firewall, no silicon seal required..... If your target HP is above 650Rwhp, you will need to upgrade more items than just the blower, so I am keeping that in mind as well.

BTW, the bigger is always better remark I saw is a bit noobish. Even novices know you are better off having a blower 'correctly matched' to your HP target and driving style than having a giant blower planted.

Cobra Fred
09-05-2011, 04:31 PM
If you want to race I will send SnakeDoc to drive my car.

quorum
09-08-2011, 01:15 PM
It makes better torque down low but does not have the big HP at high RPMs of the big twins. That is what sold me on the TVS as a selection, since I drive alot more at 2k RPMs to 5k, than above 5k. The TVS also seems to be a better overall 'fit'. No rubbing on the firewall, no silicon seal required

Are you comparing with the Whipple 2.9L? It seems you are saying that:

1. The TVS provides more power in the 2-5k rev band
2. The Whipple has "rubbing on the firewall" and requires "silicone seal" ??

Can anyone else confirm this (especially #2)??

2008GT500
09-08-2011, 01:38 PM
Attached are a couple dynos... As for number 1, you can see a TVS making 630 hp vs a Whipple making 640, and the TVS definitely out torques it through most of the power band...

As for number 2, yes, some people have had trouble with the Whipple sitting too close to the firewall (requiring a couple shots with a hammer), and I believe in the install instructions it tells you to create a seal with silicon when you set the blower on.

2008GT500
09-08-2011, 01:41 PM
And depending on your hp goal...2 more graphs.

quorum
09-08-2011, 02:33 PM
There's got to be a reason why Shelby uses the Whipple on the Super Snake, and that the Whipple is the only official supercharger upgrade from Ford Racing for the 2011 !!

Anyway - anyone else care to comment on the whole silicone sealant and firewall hammering for the 2011? I've been told the fitment of the 2010 5.4L is different from the 2011 5.4L - so maybe this isn't an issue for the 2011-2012 GT500s?

VNMOUS1
09-08-2011, 07:48 PM
There's got to be a reason why Shelby uses the Whipple on the Super Snake, and that the Whipple is the only official supercharger upgrade from Ford Racing for the 2011 !!

Anyway - anyone else care to comment on the whole silicone sealant and firewall hammering for the 2011? I've been told the fitment of the 2010 5.4L is different from the 2011 5.4L - so maybe this isn't an issue for the 2011-2012 GT500s?

There's also a reason why Ford will produce the upcoming SVT Mustang with a TVS. Why the Corvette ZR1 uses one. Why the CVS-T uses one.

It's not only the '11 that needs dinged.

Here's just one example of the "fit" issue:

I recently did some work on my clutch. To get the input shaft of the trans back into the hole we had to drop the back of the motor back just a tick. If I'd had a Whipple on there, I'd been ducked. There IS no tilting it backwards because it hits the firewall.

Oh, and I think it was you that said the VMP was the same as..........

The differences are:

VMP comes with a 2.5" snout pulley. (smaller/faster)

VMP has a ported inlet and port matched elbow (which isn't included on the FRPP piece and there is an immediate cash difference)

The VMP piece has its own 1 year warranty. The Ford Racing unit does, too. BUT....ONLY if you have an authorized dealer install it and ONLY if your car has less than 36/36 on it at the time of installation.

Neither of them protect any parts other than themselves. So, don't kid yourself about FRPP's TVS or any other of their available power adders.
PLUS....do anything other than have a FRPP tune in it and you'll likely poop away what little warranty you think you have!

Oh, and for the record, the TVS is capable of 900+ hp with supporting mods, so don't think that it's only a torque monster and the Whipple or KB is necessary to make big power. Simply not true.


bj

bull
09-08-2011, 09:24 PM
i took a year to make my decision on which blower. i wanted to see more cars near the high 600whp range and see how they held up. my shop would let me know when they had a whipple install and i'd go watch the tuning and some installs for fitment. i saw that on the 07-10 cars the firewall wasn't really an issue, the EGR was more of a fitment issue. i finally decided on the FRPP TVS and at $2700 the price was right. now when i buy parts $ really isn't the factor. i'd rather wait and save than buy something because it was cheaper. the reason i went with the FRPP was because i didn't want to push 19-20psi. also i just didn't like the look of the VMP name plate. when it was all said and done i wish i had gotten the Whipple. my tuner overlayed several whipple cars with the same set-up as mine(slight differences in manufacturers i.e. kooks vs dynatech etc). each time the Whipple out performed my final dyno numbers by 25-40whp @ same psi and timing. i also had got lucky with a low 70 degree day and low humidity, so no excuse there. now my car goes back next week for a 2.59 pulley and will be pushing 19psi. now some will chime in and say the TVS has better low-mid torque, and yes on a none lower pulley car it does. but 600ftlbs @2k rpm is just retarded for street use. if you research the whipple cars with the lower pulley you will see they are torque monsters down low as well.

quorum
09-09-2011, 12:11 AM
There's also a reason why Ford will produce the upcoming SVT Mustang with a TVS. Why the Corvette ZR1 uses one. Why the CVS-T uses one.



Well I understood the reason to be the level of boost the TVS puts out with the STOCK pulley. The Ford Racing TVS kit puts out 600+hp with the stock pulley, the VMP is the same kit with a pulley swap - that's how it competes with the Whipple. The Ford Racing TVS operates at lower boost, the VMP operates at higher boost because of the pulley swap. It's not magic!!

Is it a coincidence that the new SVT Mustang comes with a TVS and 620 HP? Of course not - that's what the TVS produces with the current pulley and therefore with the same level of boost as the FR TVS. And why does the FR TVS upgrade for the 2010 GT500 come with a full warranty? Could it be the lower boost?

What's my point? My point is that companies come stock with the TVS because it has lower boost, and therefore the engine will last longer and therefore they can offer a full warranty. That's why the FR TVS upgrade for the 2007-2010 GT500 is fully warrantied.

Anyway, my main reason for choosing the Whipple is that it runs cooler. Every forum I've read about TVS vs Whipple says that. Cooler = more efficient. I am however concerned about the size issue and the silicone sealant.

VNMOUS1
09-09-2011, 07:03 AM
Well I understood the reason to be the level of boost the TVS puts out with the STOCK pulley. The Ford Racing TVS kit puts out 600+hp with the stock pulley, the VMP is the same kit with a pulley swap - that's how it competes with the Whipple. The Ford Racing TVS operates at lower boost, the VMP operates at higher boost because of the pulley swap. It's not magic!!

Is it a coincidence that the new SVT Mustang comes with a TVS and 620 HP? Of course not - that's what the TVS produces with the current pulley and therefore with the same level of boost as the FR TVS. And why does the FR TVS upgrade for the 2010 GT500 come with a full warranty? Could it be the lower boost?

What's my point? My point is that companies come stock with the TVS because it has lower boost, and therefore the engine will last longer and therefore they can offer a full warranty. That's why the FR TVS upgrade for the 2007-2010 GT500 is fully warrantied.

Anyway, my main reason for choosing the Whipple is that it runs cooler. Every forum I've read about TVS vs Whipple says that. Cooler = more efficient. I am however concerned about the size issue and the silicone sealant.

For the type of driving 90% of people do, the cooling properties will never make a difference. (And cooling does not necessarily equal efficient.)

You should get what you want. You're doing your homework, so you're going into it with your eyes open.

The silicone is no big deal, it just seems sorta ghetto. But, it works.

Whipple makes a good blower, no question. But that wasn't the question.
This whole thing started with power properties.

The size issue....that's another thing altogether. Only you will know. Some fit better than others. Differences in engine mounting? Probably.

As for your "lower boost/warranty" thoughts; yeah....maybe. But that's my point, the FRPP (TVS or Whipple or...) and VMP have exactly the same warranty timeframe. And neither of them protect squat other than the blower itself. OH...and for those that wish to do so, you can put a VMP TVS on your car at 37,000 miles and still be covered for that year. If your car has 36,001 miles on it you won't get ANY warranty on that Ford Racing part. (Read the fine print). Also, note that I said "YOU" can put on the VMP TVS and be warrantied. You can't do THAT with the Ford Racing part either. You have to pay someone (a Ford dealer) to do it for you.

Different strokes.

bj

bull
09-09-2011, 09:57 AM
to the OP, either blower will get you to your destination. either way the car will be a beast on the street and will humble you at the track.

Geoffcin
09-09-2011, 10:39 AM
Well I understood the reason to be the level of boost the TVS puts out with the STOCK pulley. The Ford Racing TVS kit puts out 600+hp with the stock pulley, the VMP is the same kit with a pulley swap - that's how it competes with the Whipple. The Ford Racing TVS operates at lower boost, the VMP operates at higher boost because of the pulley swap. It's not magic!!

Is it a coincidence that the new SVT Mustang comes with a TVS and 620 HP? Of course not - that's what the TVS produces with the current pulley and therefore with the same level of boost as the FR TVS. And why does the FR TVS upgrade for the 2010 GT500 come with a full warranty? Could it be the lower boost?

What's my point? My point is that companies come stock with the TVS because it has lower boost, and therefore the engine will last longer and therefore they can offer a full warranty. That's why the FR TVS upgrade for the 2007-2010 GT500 is fully warrantied.

Anyway, my main reason for choosing the Whipple is that it runs cooler. Every forum I've read about TVS vs Whipple says that. Cooler = more efficient. I am however concerned about the size issue and the silicone sealant.

I have a FRPP TVS that was installed by the dealer.The FRPP TVS give a +120hp bump bringing my flywheel HP to a nominal 660bhp. The engine/powertrain warranty was NOT voided by the install. The FRPP TVS itself has a 12m/12k
warranty, just like the VPM TVS. The VMP TVS comes with a ported intake and elbow, in addition to a pully and a more agressive tune. If you install this TVS your powertrain warranty will be void. The FRPP Whipple is a +200hp upgrade. Installing it even by a Ford dealer will void your P/T warranty.

The 2.9L Whipple can be pushed via a pully to 19psi or better. Think 800hp+ The TVS is maxed out at 17psi or so, still that a whopping amount of power.

However; and this is a BIG however, If you intend to run big boost like this your going to have to invest money inother parts of the car or your just "spinning your wheels" so to speak.

Slowbra1
03-10-2012, 04:48 PM
These threads are good what we need is a head to head with cars with both at the track

NightRide
03-10-2012, 05:58 PM
I don't think you will be disappointed with either blower they are both monsters. To me I like the way whipple looks on Terminators just not so much on the Shelby. I'm probably going to end up going TVS for the best value/fit. If I get some kind of monster deal KB would be my ultimate choice. For what it's worth I have read a 2.9 whipple vs a 2.3 TVS on the highway the whipple wins by a couple cars.

Slowbra1
03-10-2012, 07:59 PM
I don't think you will be disappointed with either blower they are both monsters. To me I like the way whipple looks on Terminators just not so much on the Shelby. I'm probably going to end up going TVS for the best value/fit. If I get some kind of monster deal KB would be my ultimate choice. For what it's worth I have read a 2.9 whipple vs a 2.3 TVS on the highway the whipple wins by a couple cars.

I would think the 2.9 would have an edge as speed soars with the larger displacement

428cj
03-10-2012, 09:25 PM
I have installed two 2.9 's and several TVS and several ported eatons all of them run great . The 2.9 cars had the ford racing kits and tunes the tvs cars had vmp on one and lund on the other and the ported eatons had vmp tunes THE 2,9 is hard to get the egr line installed and is not a good fit at the firewall and you have to silcon the seal . the tvs is a perfect fit and in my own gt500 I went with a ported and 2.59 pulley TVS the dyno numbers are close but the tq of the tvs is alot better at lower RPM's also the seat of the pants dyno on the tvs feels alot stronger.I installed dual fan Heat Exc on all the gt500's I do blower work on .I hope to get to install a KB at sometime just to compare all the differant blowers. 428cj

RTSteve
03-11-2012, 07:19 AM
I vote for the VMP TVS. Takes a couple hours to install (if you take your time) and makes gobs of power. It is an absolute perfect fit without ANY worries or modifications. Plus, not sure who does the tune for the Ford Racing kit, but the tune from VMP was spot on. the only other mods to my car are 65mm TB, 123mm CAI, and 10% OD lower. It is definately a good idea to use an aftermarket heat exchanger, I run the Afco and my IAT temps are always right in line.

The lower number on the graph is a conservative 93 octane tune for everyday driving, the higher is designed for 100 octane.

http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n597/scnanney/Graph.jpg

VNMOUS1
03-11-2012, 10:36 AM
As Steve has suggested, here's a look at the VMP TVS and the level of torque that happens WAAYYY down low. Note that my pull begins lower than his and that I've 600 pound feet of torque at 2,500 rpm! (see thumbnail below)


And here's an interesting thread from a couple of years back over on TS where you can see some real world numbers.

http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php/topic/44216-whipple-29l-dyno-results-3125-pulley-stock-exhaust-630-640rwhp/

BJ

SpeedJunkie
03-11-2012, 07:01 PM
I have a 2012 and there was no fitment issue what so ever. As for the silicone? That's what it was made for, putting motors together. Either way you go, just do it, GET A SC and start havin some fun with it
you can go with any tune you want so don't let that stop you.. I have a JL , VMP and Ford tune.. That way I can play around with them all.

GT Premi
03-21-2012, 10:01 AM
There was no fitment problems with mine during the install. However, it is a little difficult to get the EGR wiring harness plugged back in. I highly recommend separating the wires from the harness a little bit; which the Whipple instructions actually say to do.